Carlos Roque "Shotgun" Monzón vs. "Marvelous" Marvin Nathaniel Hagler - Definitive Classic Breakdown

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Aug 12, 2025.


Escopeta or The Marvelous One? VOTE ONLY WHEN YOU'RE READY, THIS CANNOT BE CHANGED LATER!

  1. Monzón on points

    53.0%
  2. Monzón by stoppage

    2.4%
  3. Draw

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Hagler on points

    43.4%
  5. Hagler by stoppage

    1.2%
  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Let there be a thousand blossoms bloom!

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  2. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I feel I have to respond as the OP put the shout out but I do so with no conviction.

    My eye test says Hagler all day long. Massively more athletic, can vary the tempo, switch hit, in and out, head to body and angles. Monzon, to my eye, is slow and predictable, little variation and holds his head still which would be dangerous against Marvin's leaping right hook. I just don't see anything special there at all.

    Of course, he had a long reign and there are many knowledgeable people who rate him highly so I have to accept I'm missing something. And I'm happy to accept his ice cold blood in his veins in terms of handling pressure, whereas Marvin could be temperamental.

    In a fight between two elite practitioners, I'll go with the one I imagine to have that bit extra that's special and, for me, that's Hagler. He can fight in a number of ways. And if that's because I just don't see the nuances with Monzon, that's fair enough. Happy to admit I'm wrong.
     
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  3. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    :lol::lol::lol:

    Bob Katter. Mad as a cut snake. Legend.

    Love the not so subtle personality change - the horde is about to break loose.
     
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  4. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I came on here thinking Hagler would edge it out with his determination and will. After reading everyone's analysis I am going to go with Carlos Monzon by decision.

    His ring generalship/Ring IQ being a factor in that. At first glance Monzon appears methodical and predictable but he's not predictable. He had a knack for changing up his punch selection but he also changed the pace of his punching.

    I think Hagler could have moments where he penetrates Monzon rhythm but Carlos would keep functional control of the fight. It would be a frustrating night for Hagler.
     
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  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Alright, here goes...

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    Carlos Roque Monzón vs. Benjamin Briscoe II, 15 rounds @ middleweight
     
  6. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    For context:

    When they fought to a draw in 1967, it was considered a close fight but one that should have gone the visitor's way. @My2Sense translated an Argentinian article, author uncited, that gave Monzón just rounds 2 and 10, with the remaining eight rounds split - 4 even and 4 to Briscoe.

    Of course, this was a pre-championship Monzón and Briscoe, while not having been a pro much longer, had fought a much higher level of competition (and had access to some top notch sparring in the local Philly scene).

    When they met again in '72, it was in Escopeta's prime, while Bad Bennie was already starting his long decline.
     
  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 1

    Monzón with the first jab stepping in, before starting to circle to his left, leaning away and tilting his head back from Briscoe's up-jabs and hooks. Monzón parrying some punches on his left forearm. Three straight punch combo by Monzón. Briscoe pressuring, tossing single hard jabs up at Monzón's face, getting countered with pendulums on the body and the occasional 1-2. Overhand right now from Briscoe, more a herding punch to get Monzón into the ropes as Briscoe isn't yet in range. Counter jabs landing flush for Monzón. Briscoe getting a bit closer and grazing with some reach-up shots from a hunched position, spine crooked, gloves sandwiching his face.

    10-9 Monzón
     
  8. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 2

    Monzón jauntily jogging away from Briscoe, leaving a breadcrumb trail of jabs at chin-height for the American to run into. Briscoe bows his head and drops into a shell as he charges in. Briscoe scores a jab and then rams into Monzón, with his crown goring into the champ's sternum, while tapping his sides with a couple of body shots. The ref gives Briscoe a warning for the billy-goating. Monzón is baiting Briscoe, standing in front of him and then coasting out a few short steps hoping to make Briscoe lunge so he can exploit his 5" reach advantage by roping out a counter jab while leaning away from Briscoe's. Several times however, Briscoe's bursts of foot speed surprise Monzón and he's able to force jab exchanges where both connect at the same time. Monzón putting together short, light kneading straight right hands into the forehead of Briscoe (meant to push him back as much as land as damaging shots) and uppercuts, but Briscoe barges straight through, thumping the body where he can.

    10-9 Monzón

    20-18 Monzón
     
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 3

    Monzón is taking command of the middle of the ring and brushes the pate of Briscoe with several jabs before starting to circle. Territorial pissings, this. Briscoe with threshing combos downstairs, switching to hooks up top as he walks Monzón nearly into the ropes. Monzón avoiding the perimeter with snap-pivots and feeding Briscoe a healthy diet of counter jabs. When he gets close and hammers in with a chopping power shot, Briscoe is deflected with a push-out of one or both of Monzón's arms in a splashing motion. Monzón with a solidly turned over right hand, just above Briscoe's left eye - and you can see a moment's hesitation before Monzón begins moving again. He clearly had expected that punch to drop or at least visibly hurt the Pennsylvanian. Another lead right by Monzón, partially blocked.

    10-9 Monzón

    30-27 Monzón
     
  10. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 4

    Briscoe decides this time he wants to be first to run out and get a lick in with the jab. Monzón is measuring Briscoe with the jab working out from his chest like a paddle-ball, then delivers a hard 1-2 into Briscoe's brow. Monzón controlling range very well. Briscoe pressing, but unable to get past the jab. Briscoe keeps his chin tucked low, gloves up, bobbing his way inside, and tries a gambit left hook springing upright. It works, he nicks Monzón with it, but also eats several counter shots. Economy of scale is questionable, with this strategy. Briscoe is diving in repeatedly, and Monzón is in his element, countering with masterful uppercutting sequences built off the jab, to his adoring crowd's delight. Briscoe giving himself up on a silver platter to a counter-punching genius, ripping a corkscrew shot on the body here and there but vastly outlanded, and by higher-quality stuff.

    10-9 Monzón

    40-36 Monzón
     
  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 5

    Monzón remains very calm and comfortable, pushing out jabs and 1-2s at medium-long range, and shrimping himself up into a small target, twisting around and giving Briscoe his back as a target when the challenger catapults himself in close. Monzón metronome-like in his jab connections on Briscoe's face. Heavy underhanded swings at the body by Briscoe as he beelines toward Monzón, but most of his shots are blunted by Monzón moving diagonally away from them while navigating the ropes and corners as though he had eyes on the back of his head. Briscoe lit up by the 1-2 anytime he isn't smothering, and when he does smother Monzón's long arms are able to contain his and prevent any substantial infighting.

    10-9 Monzón

    50-45 Monzón
     
  12. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 6

    Monzón is mixing in left hooks with his jab now as part of his siege defense. Briscoe jabbing his way in, reaching high while up on his toes, all while holding his right fist by his chin to catch counters (or to drive it up toward his own left eye, so that his forearm forms half an "X" to shield his face). Briscoe is ducking rhythmically on the way in, and Monzón has him timed perfectly for jabs between his eyes and uppercuts on the bottom of the chin. Monzón having a field day boxing on the backfoot. 1-2-3 by Monzón. Briscoe reaches in with his own 1-2 and eats a hard right hand. Monzón moving left and landing three shots for every step Briscoe takes toward him.

    10-9 Monzón

    60-54 Monzón
     
  13. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 7

    Monzón is neutralizing Briscoe' jab by jabbing softly into the knuckle pad or wrist of Briscoe's left glove before he can fully let fly. Monzón then steps out to his preferred range and puts more snap on his jab, elevating his aim to Briscoe's face. Briscoe doing a good job shooting his right hand up in the way to deflect. Monzón, however, using the jab to set up flailing rights or uppercuts for which Briscoe has no prepared defense...but Briscoe barrels through them, often leaving them bouncing off his sides or elbows. Briscoe is now catching both the "1" and the "2" with quick windshield-wiper movements of his right arm, and starting to find Monzón with his lead up-jab while stepping in close.

    10-9 Monzón, very close

    70-63 Monzón
     
  14. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 8

    Monzón is taking a step back with his right foot, dragging the left after it while jabbing, planting himself for a hook off the jab, and repeating. Briscoe is burrowing in low, working the body, then planking his spine up and shooting hard jabs into Monzón's face. Briscoe eating combinations while applying heavy pressure. Pretty even round halfway through, if you tally Briscoe's body shots and Monzón's headhunting. Briscoe lunges with a line drive right and misses past Monzón's shoulder, and gets countered. Monzón now working on the outside, doubling a hook into Briscoe's face before Briscoe is even in range to jab. Monzón moves in and they clinch and both whack away with their free hand until the ref splits them. Monzón with some solid jabs to close the round. Briscoe is landing a punch as the bell rings and Monzón, mad lad that he is, nonchalantly TURNS AWAY FROM BRISCOE WHILE A PUNCH IS LANDING to begin sitting on his stool

    10-9 Monzón

    80-72 Monzón
     
  15. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 9

    Monzón is knifing out the double jab, then a cross, then a hook, all while in lateral stride. Briscoe ducking under everything, submarining his way inside firing body torpedoes from either tube. Monzón getting a little fancy now, hooking his way out of a corner with his hands down. Briscoe walks into a jab, ducks the next, and catches a third on his arm. Briscoe slowly but surely getting closer, and getting in some meaty shots downstairs. Briscoe ducks a right hand and left hook from Monzón, taking the former as a sweeping rabbit punch and making the latter miss outright. Briscoe double jabs the body to gauge distance as Monzón moves along the ropes. Briscoe fakes him out by throwing a similar looking lazy jab, but instead of doubling it he RAMS A RIGHT HAND INTO THE CHAMPION'S CHIN! Monzón hurt! Briscoe comes in with overhands ready to finish the job. Monzón dives in low and encircles both arms around Briscoe's waist. Briscoe has him on the run, landing jabs on the face. Monzón ties up again, lightly tapping his flanks. They push apart and Monzón tries a hard 1-1-2 to get Briscoe's respect.

    10-9 Briscoe

    89-82 Monzón