Bernard Hopkins: ATG or just a master of longevity?

Had he retired after the Jermain Taylor losses I would've said no he isn't an ATG.

But based on his career resurgence in his 40s beating the likes of Kelly Pavlik, Antonio Tarver, Jean Pascal, and winning title fights at Light Heavyweight in his 40s I would say yes.

24 world title wins at Middleweight/Light Heavyweight along with his achievements in his old age and his longevity I think he could be classed as an ATG yes.

 

One of the most ridiculous posts I've read on this site.

 

Undeniable ATG. People have been very quick to forget just how remarkable it is for Hopkins to have done what he did when he was pushing 50, beating guys half his age. He cleaned out the MW division which he ruled over for about a decade, is tied for most defences of all time at 160, and is the oldest champion in the sport's history. His accomplishments speak for themselves, he is an obvious ATG and would be successful in any era you put him in.

 

Great level of dedication and longevity. Never particularly rated him at any point. He’d be competitive with most great middleweights but wouldn’t pick him to beat many. ​

 

I consider him both an ATG and a master of longevity.

 

Him being an ATG allowed him to have longevity, and him having longevity also allowed him to become an ATG.

 

Personally I don’t think I would no.

 

Glen Johnson might be a great comparison example of a fighter who isn't great but was a very good fighter who was a longevity master. Rumour has it he was still winning fights at an age I can't be asked to Google. And that rumour is TRUE.

 

I remember him uploading a video (or maybe it was just a picture? It was after He beat Pascal I think) of eating a cheesecake. It's probably still out there somewhere. It was in that later stage when it became a theme, with him saying He was training on cheese-steaks and cheese-cake early on in his career and then never touched any of it after prison.

 

Both

 

You know I thought the samething at first.......until I really thought about it and he might be a little right.

 

He's really not though? Hopkins was a natural MW as illustrated by his in-ring weights being less than 10lbs over 160 even in his 40s. He didn't hide out at 160 in much the same way that Hagler never. 168 was not a glamour division during Hopkins' reign at 160, there wasn't anybody to hide from. Sven Ottke and Joe Calzaghe were both considered Euro-bums who did heavily pad their records against the dregs of a divisional backwater. Calzaghe of course went on to prove that he was more than that, but an obscure Welshman with an unrecognised title in an unrecognised division who only fights at home was not a big consideration for anybody as someone Hopkins ought to have fought. Antwun Echols was one of the top 5 ranked SMWs when he moved and Hopkins gave him a hiding.

Roy Jones was up at 175 for Hopkins' entire reign. HBO had a long list of guys they wanted Roy to fight (a certain Pole in particular), but Hopkins wasn't really on it and the dates and intrigue never aligned for that fight. It doesn't even make sense to say that B-Hop "hid out at 160" and was ducking a rematch with Roy, since Hopkins took a fight (at 160 btw) against a prime Roy Jones Jr.

ODLH and Tito came from the divisions below, sure, but Tito proved himself a quality MW when he bulldozed William Joppy, and the ODLH fight was at 156 catchweight anyway, in a fight where Oscar actually performed quite well. There was practically no-one in the division left to fight anyway, because he cleaned out every notable fighter in the division's top 10 for just shy of a decade.

Trying to write off his longevity as a result of him being imprisoned is absurd. Plenty of fighters started out from prison, and plenty had their careers interrupted by a prison sentence. None of them won world titles when they were 49 years of age. Hopkins has also stated that he comes from a boxing family and that he did box as an amateur in Philadelphia as a child and early adolescent. Prison sentences don't do any good for the body anyway. The food is horrible nutrition, inmates are routinely beaten, there is perpetual stress of being physically harmed by other inmates, diseases spread fast, and medical treatment available to prisoners is awful. Prison is horrible for the body, no-one is ever athletically good while "fresh out of prison."

The entire post is nonsense and outright untrue.

 

Tito really did not do too much at middleweight and Oscar took a hiding against Strum prior to meeting Hopkins remember? I am not doubting Hopkins skill but his resume at middleweight is very thin and Ehols only had a punch and that was it Mundine boxed his ears off.
You have to admit that his reign is a little paper thin in that 3 of his defences were vs Robert Allen, 2 against Echols, 1 against a shot Simon Brown who did not belong at middleweight and I have no idea how he even received a shot honestly, Andrew Council, who I was a fan of, was really a Jr.middleweight and had actually LOST to Robert Allen prior to Hopkins and somehow received a shot.
Carl Daniels was a Jr,middleweight who moved up and again I have no idea how he got a shot, William Bo James I have absolutely no idea how he received a title shot. Hakkar was a total gimme but boxers deserve a break now and then.
I mean that's 10 title defenses right there and they are very thin no matter how you look at it.
And you watch too many movies about prison for me to take any of that seriously.

 

I kinda of agree with this.

Is Hopkins he an ATG? Yes, because of his combined achievements, at super middle and light heavy, taking into accounts high age.
Is Hopkins a Top 5 ATG 160 pounder? No, his resume at 160 is not that great and he lost twice to Taylor.

By the way, the same reasoning would apply to James Toney. Based on his achievements at 160 and 168 he is no ATG. But taking into account his achievements at 190 and heavyweight,taking into account his age and that his size, he is an ATG.

 

We can poke holes through anyone’s resume and apply asterisks to any win. That type of conversation really doesn’t interest me. Hopkins fought everyone there was to fight. He fought everyone who was in front of him. What more can you really ask? And prison is demonstrably harmful to the human body.