Bellew believes Usyk would’ve beaten Tyson

The point is "weak era of heavyweights" is just a saying that almost every great heavyweight got stick for when they were dominating. Tyson, Lennox, Wlad, now Usyk.

 

No one Tyson best was superior to who Usyk beat by the time Tyson fought then

 

I disagree. I think most of who Tyson beat while champion were equal or superior to Dubious and Joshua. Fury is probably a better scalp than the other two but given his performance against Ngannou, the gap isn't that huge.

 

Yes, but those you mentioned fought more Heavyweights so there are least a few quality ones in there. Lewis beating Vitali, Tyson beating Tucker etc. Uysk has only beaten a handful of Heavyweights and none of them top drawer. Fury was the best but he is on the slide, inconsistent and he embarrassed himself with his performance against Ngannou. The Fury that Uysk beat probably wasn't the same Fury from the first two Wilder fights.

 

Only one who's comparable is Holmes and Spinks neither of whom was really in great shape and Spinks wasn't even trying to win just get a paycheck

 

Bellew was a fine fighter but he gets way carried away with the Usyk praise. I think a lot of it has to do with him wanting himself to look better for losing that fight.

 

Every fighter hypes up their opponents and their era to make themselves look better tale as old as time

 

Tony Bellew is low-key one of the most overrated fighters of all time. He won a vacant belt in one of the weakest iterations of arguably the weakest division of all time (Cruiserweight) and then defeated an EXTREMELY shot David Haye twice. So shot he had fight ending injuries in both fights FFS.

That's the apex of his career. Prior to that he had trouble separating himself from the likes of Isaac Chilemba and Nathan Cleverly yet he's talked about by the British public like a HOF'er.

 

Usyk is all time great HW and in a hypothetical an ATG can beat another ATG. However, did Usyk ever fight anyone that had remotely the combination of speed and power that Mike had?

He's beaten big powerful opponents, but with the speed as well?

 

It is just a saying - but the extent to which the "weak era of heavyweights" critique carries weight varies from era to era.

For example, while Tyson's opposition might have been criticized, few people failed to genuinely believe they were watching something great in the emergence of Tyson.

The 90's was criticized more heavily for the failure to make matches than it was for the level of available talent.

There was broad consensus that the post-Lewis Wlad era was extremely shallow and for good reason.

The division seemed to get a bit more interesting, post-Wlad - but also ended up revolving around a handful of heavyweights with, in the main, quite mixed performances. At the same time a crop of potential contenders have rarely had a look in.

All the Heavyweight World Title bouts of the last 5 years:

2021 Sep 25 Oleksandr Usyk UD 12 Anthony Joshua
2021 Oct 9 Tyson Fury KO 11 Deontay Wilder
2022 Apr 23 Tyson Fury TKO 6 Dillian Whyte
2022 Aug 20 Oleksandr Usyk SD 12 Anthony Joshua
2022 Dec 3 Tyson Fury TKO 10 Dereck Chisora
2023 Aug 26 Oleksandr Usyk KO 9 Daniel Dubois
2024 May 18 Oleksandr Usyk SD 12 Tyson Fury
2024 Sep 21 Daniel Dubois KO 5 Anthony Joshua
2024 Dec 21 Oleksandr Usyk UD 12 Tyson Fury
2025 Jul 19 Oleksandr Usyk KO 5 Daniel Dubois


Heavyweight World Title bouts for the 5-year period covering the second half of the '80s:

1985 Mar 15 Larry Holmes TKO 10 David Bey
1985 Apr 29 Tony Tubbs UD 15 Greg Page
1985 May 20 Larry Holmes UD 15 Carl Williams
1985 Jun 15 Pinklon Thomas TKO 8 Mike Weaver
1985 Sep 21 Michael Spinks UD 15 Larry Holmes
1986 Jan 17 Tim Witherspoon MD 15 Tony Tubbs
1986 Mar 22 Trevor Berbick UD 12 Pinklon Thomas
1986 Apr 19 Michael Spinks SD 15 Larry Holmes
1986 Jul 19 Tim Witherspoon TKO 11 Frank Bruno
1986 Sep 6 Michael Spinks TKO 4 Steffen Tangstad
1986 Nov 22 Mike Tyson TKO 2 Trevor Berbick
1987 Mar 7 Mike Tyson UD 12 James Smith
1987 May 30 Tony Tucker TKO 10 James Douglas
1987 May 30 Mike Tyson TKO 6 Pinklon Thomas
1987 Aug 1 Mike Tyson UD 12 Tony Tucker
1987 Oct 16 Mike Tyson TKO 7 Tyrell Biggs
1988 Jan 22 Mike Tyson TKO 4 Larry Holmes
1988 Mar 21 Mike Tyson TKO 2 Tony Tubbs
1988 Jun 27 Mike Tyson KO 1 Michael Spinks
1989 Feb 25 Mike Tyson TKO 5 Frank Bruno
1989 May 6 F. Damiani KO 3 Johnny DuPlooy
1989 Jul 21 Mike Tyson TKO 1 Carl Williams
1989 Dec 16 F Damiani TKO 2 Daniel Eduardo Neto


Tyson had 27 pro bouts (non-title) in 85/86 before meeting Berbick to win his first title. That's more pro bouts than Usyk has had in his 12-year career.

Thus, it should come as no surprise that observers today are not immediately convinced by the idea this current era is rich and deep.

 

I think you are right. Looking at Bellew's resume, its very clear its a limited resume. He is a likeable guy but obviously the best cruiser, besides Usyk, was Breidis and Bellew didn't or couldn't fight him. Beating that version of Haye is hardly impressive.

 

AJ and Dubois would beat the living sh*t out of all of Tysons wins.

 

Tyson couldn't get Mitch ****ing Green out of there.

 

Not a chance. They might beat some but neither of them are 'beating the ****' out of any of them. Neither AJ (post Ruiz) or Dubious are particularly good.

 

I'll take Tucker and Bruno over AJ and Dubois.

Spinks got swamped early by Tyson so no way of knowing how motivated he was.