Mayweather claims he is greater than Ali: "With all due respect, that's how it is"

When Frazier was past his best and then when both were a shell of their former selves

 

Ali was always the older and more shopworn fighter every time they met, and it's telling Joe Frazier was never the same after the FOTC and Ali went on to infinitely greater heights. Oh, and if Ali was a "shell" of his former self that makes his knock out of a consensus top ten, maybe top five heavyweight who was in his absolute prime all the more impressive.

 

Frazier was closer to his best than Ali in FOTC but not sure about fight 2 and in fight 3 it was just brutal for both it was obviously both of them had taking a bashing in the leadup so don't know if it applies there either. Supposedly Frazier had some eye accident were he lost vision on one eye but can't remember the year that came about but IIRC it was during his career.

 

Floyd knocked off Canelo (undefeated, unified, huge weight advantage) and Pacquiao (pfp 1 other than Floyd) in his later thirties. He's really not the guy to play that sort of game with.

 

He knows people will go with whatever he says.

 

I couldn't give a rat's ass who anyone thinks is better. It's a mug's game.I was just rebutting the notion that any athlete can be prohibited from participating in his or her sport from the age of 25 to 29 and be as good as they would have been in the years they weren't allowed to participate. That stands physiology on its head.

 

Ali wasn’t “exiled” or “banished” he was in gyms travelling around with his gear getting work in… you love the guy that much and are such a super fan you didn’t know that? Ellis, Futch, Norton and Bugner all talked about Ali working out / sparring in gyms, Futch said Ali drew crowds, Bugner paid him for work and Ellis used him for his fights as a sparring partner.

 

Ali’s best win to people is GF… Compare that to Canelo? Seriously? Not even close, I actually think the Foremanic love is a symptom of being an Aliophile they’ve got to protect GF to protect Ali lol.

 

Sparring and exhibitions is to boxing matches what practice is to professional sports games. I can literally see the Los Angeles Rams train from my bedroom window. It ain't what they're doing when they're playing for real. On edit- we don't know what Ali would or wouldn't have done in his prime years when he was prohibited from boxing in actual matches as they are commonly understood. We do know he was only 25 years old and had absolutely dominated his last three opponents.

 

Floyd was arguably beaten at least twice. He also suffered a legit KD against Judah that wasn’t recognised.

He deliberately put his greatest challenger on the back burner for 5 years - to age him out and/or see him trip over -

Then, even after Marquez KO’d Pac, Floyd still didn’t jump for the match and you’d be blind not to see that Mayweather still fought leery during the opening rounds when he finally mustered the courage to fight PAC.

Ali was clearly rusty for the FOTC, including not yet having brought up his stamina to its full, post exile potential. Ali beginning to gas in his own right after about 4 rounds was a significant factor that allowed Frazier to come to the fore -

Through the first 4 rounds, Ali was giving Joe a hiding next to nothing. Pre exile Ali doesn’t tire and keeps dishing it to Joe for many more rounds.

Based on Ali’s obvious 3.5 year inactivity, Cus D’Amata believed that it was impossible for Ali to recapture his pre exile form at ANY rate - no mention by Cus or Angelo of Ali staying sharp otherwise during his protracted hiatus from the ring.

Where’s the evidence that Ali trained in any meaningful way during his exile? That’s right. There isn’t any.

For the Marciano computer fight, with a visible paunch, Ali weighed 230 lbs - 240 lbs - yeah, so much for keeping trim and in shape.

Ali didn’t fight exhibitions during his exile - he quite obviously was forbidden to do so.

 

It's amazing how Ali's wins aren't really wins and his losses are absolutely losses to some people. Context for me and not for thee. Oh, and if people are going to argue Ali beat Liston in Miami Beach because he had a bad shoulder it's absolutely fair to point out Manny had a bad shoulder in his fight with Floyd. I can provide a citation if anyone wants. Fighters like athletes are often nicked up. Jack Youngblood played a SuperBowl game with a broken leg. I don't begrudge anyone believing Floyd is a better fighter. I do begrudge people minimizing Ali's achievements. On edit I looked up Ali's exhibitions, he had over one hundred of them, including against Burt Young, Marvin Gaye, and Sammy Davis Jr., shows how serious they can be, but none between March of 1967 and September of 1970 I do know Ali was so strapped for cash during his exile Gene Kilroy was bringing groceries for him, Belinda, and their babies to their Chicago apartment . And George Foreman is absolutely a consensus top ten heavyweight. And in keeping with my belief arguing about who is and isn't great is a mug's game argue with Artificial Intelligence. Chat GPT says he is. It will literally debate you.

 

Excellent post mate.

 

Thank you, sir.

 

I don’t think you understand how “fighting shape” works, beyond a point you don’t need fights to stay “sharp” some guys win 3-4 rd fights by KO twice a year you really think 8 rds of fighting gets you into a “condition”… you’re seasoned enough, “fighting shape” is partially a mindset, sparring gets your timing right and the gym gets your condition right… it’s why today you can fight once a year and be fine, you have frequent fights early on to get used to fighting intensity, pressure of the lights, crowds etc he didn’t need to fight some Johnny Paychecks.

 

Yes, and Ali didn't do much sparring. He did a week with Ellis in the fall of 1969 and said it was the first he'd done in years. Then there was an exhibition in September 1970.

Then he told a story of a session with a young pro around the same time. Futch also said he came down to his gym once and sparred with Norton.