Mayweather claims he is greater than Ali: "With all due respect, that's how it is"

Agreed no wrong opinions it’s just speculation and critically looking at Ali you can say historically he’s the greatest HW but H2H? Film suggests otherwise; Norton, Cooper, Frazier, Jones, Mildenberger, Bonavena etc watching those bouts and saying that guy “clowns” Lennox, “Drowns” Tyson , “Destroys” Wlad and “befuddles” Holyfield, Usyk, Louis… is downright as you say “harsh” and to me silly.

 

Amazing a can can go 100-5 in the amateurs, win an Olympic Gold Medal, beat four Olympic Gold Medalists, from the 1952, 1964, 1968, and 1976 Olympics which shows the amazing breadth of his career, beat two consensus top ten heavyweights and one bubble top ten heavyweight (remember consensus doesn't mean everyone) and go 8-3 against other members of the International Boxing Hall of Fame.

 

No one is calling Ali a can, me and @OddR reached a finish line in the discussion (as of this moment) and you’re coming in trying to misrepresent what I said to rile up a hate wagon, you’re adding nothing to the discussion.

 

I’ve never disputed his talent but his business model (low risk, massive hype, little entertainment) stuffed boxing. It’s why we spend so much time discussing fights that could’ve, should’ve and didn’t happen (or didn’t happen when the fight was relevant). I blame Mayweather for that.
Thankfully in Usyk we have the antithesis of that. A guy who will risk his 0, not ***** about purses, type of gloves etc, no catch weigh or rehydration BS and will actually travel to his opponents backyard and still clean house. Thats a real fighter.

 

I haven't quoted you once in this thread. As to your claim I add nothing to this discussion and presumably other discussions the 8,420 likes I have accumulated suggests that's not the case. Oh, and I try not to make things personal though three posters just in this thread have.

 

Because he was so fast for his size at his best he was unique and considered almost unbeatable. His contemporaries said they’d never seen anyone like it, we’ve still not seen anyone like it.
Once he lost that he proved he was also one of the toughest to ever do it , basically through sheer will.
Your ‘one trick pony’

 

That's what his detractors absolutely don't get. As Napolean said, "In war, the moral is to the physical as three is to one."

 

When Ali turned pro not very many people were impressed. A lot of the long time boxing writers referred to his style as the science of wasted movement. AJ Liebling, in particular, was of the opinion that Ali didn't learn how to fight until after he lost to Frazier.
Ali's fundamentals were somewhere south of what they should be. He flicked his jab, no shoulder in it. He slapped with his hook. He dropped his right hand to throw an uppercut. He never ever learned how to block a left hook. When he jabbed his right hand flared out instead of staying where it was supposed to be. His reputation as a great defensive fighter doesn't hold up at all if you watch him fight.
As his career started he was matched very carefully by a long time boxing guy that knew how to move a fighter. I can guarantee that even Liston was a careful thought because of all the videos from that time of Liston hitting the bag with one of his people holding it. When you see that, you know he has no legs and, if I know that, Dundee did too. You see the same thing a decade later with Foreman.
You are 100% correct when you say Ali succeeded through sheer will. During the early part of his career, he was bigger and had reflexes and his opponents were picked to make him look good. (and, if you have a good manager, it should be that way for everybody) When he was in a position where he was always in with top guys, he made it on his will to win and you cannot take that from him.
But it is perspective. Liston had no legs and didn't know how to cut the ring- he followed Ali around. When he fought Foreman, Ali knew he couldn't move all night and it had zero to do with Foreman. Instead, he went to the ropes and the big dummy followed him. That is a trick James Toney used for years.

 

I’m not going to say Ali is a textbook study of fundamentals…he was a guy who relied on his speed and reflexes and later his toughness and will.

I don’t think you can say that he looked good because of Dundee hand picking his opponents, there’s an element of that as Dundee was always known for it, but the quality of Ali’s opponents was pretty damn high before his exile.
Liston can’t really be said to be such a careful pick when he was the champion…and it’s easy to say he had no legs but he was viewed as a monster at the time.
Ali’s smartness v Foreman is underrated, he came out and took it to him from the opening bell, talked to him constantly, wound him up big time and Foreman punched himself out, Ali had to weather some serious bombs to do that as well though.
Prime Foreman at the end of the day is way ahead of any of Floyds best wins.
Ali did everything that he did while missing out on what would have been the best years of his career, especially so considering his style, you would think.

One can say Mayweather learned how to block a hook better, or had a more textbook jab, or whatever, but he didn’t have a better career than Ali and the greater fighter is the last thing he is.

 

Liebling died in 1963. He did write an essay, The Poet and the Pedagogue about the Sonny Banks fight, where he said solid work and instruction will carry a young man a long way, but unearned natural ability has much to say about it. I can link it if anyone wants. Jose Torres said Ali shows you his mistakes and beats you with it.

 

What do you think about the comparison of Ali with Sugar Ray Robinson?

 

Robinson was a more complete fighter.

 

So you’re counting the McGregor fight to Mayweather’s resume?? He’s 49-0 unless Marciano is allowed to count his 1969 computer bout victory over Ali? They are about as legitimate as each other.

A 5 division champ who never unified a weight class to prove he was the best in any division. He probably was in most of them but his natural risk aversion prevented him trying to prove it. Usyk has unified 2 divisions. In less than half the fights.

 

McGregor was better like than like half of Rocky’s victories.

 

Sorry but Floyd is delusional on this one.