1974 George Foreman vs 2017 Anthony Joshua: Does Foreman make it to the finish line

I was just watching such a Marciano fight yesterday

 

George plants him

 

To be fair Foreman did go full r3tard against Lyle and looked more like Tony galento than the Foreman of old or even compared to his performance afterward in the Frazier rematch which you could credit as his best 70s technical performance. I attribute this to Foreman’s ego being shattered by Ali which I know you’re pretty skeptical of from your other posts, but the man did literally ****ing “see God” and had to be hospitalized after the Young debacle, safe to say he wasn’t in a healthy mental state so it doesn’t surprise that he underperformed in his first fight off of the most ego-shattering event of his life. Dude basically had a psychotic episode, a more measured version of George takes Lyle out of there in under 3 imo.

A lot also depends on if you think there’s a significant gap in durability between 90s foreman and 70s foreman. That extra weight certainly helped though some of those left hooks from Cooney wobled him. Honestly I think it would come down to recovery and how each man handles the knockdown as well as being hurt by a big puncher, and I think George has better recovery and panics less when stung.

Also, while I’d call AJ faster I wouldn’t say the gap in speed is all that significant. Honestly I’d go as far as to say George had underrated hand and foot speed, and overall athleticism in general.

 

He did it deliberately. Low output against Ortiz, Breazeale, Helenius, and Washington. All big guys.

 

Breazeale: KO R1
Helenis: Coming off of a BRUTAL KO after a year lay-off, also KO R1
Ortiz I: One of Wilder's highest output matches
Great evidence.

And fun fact: Wilder's highest-output match was Tyson Fury I.

 

You referenced two opponents who were both KOd in under a round as evidence of Wilder "deliberately lowering his punch output".

You're not even trying anymore.

 

Joshua was as stiff as a board with slower feet, refused to move his head at all, didn't have as good of body mechanics as Foreman who had underrated athleticism and could suddenly explode at his opponents.

I will say Joshua has faster hands, better boxing fundamentals, and cardio. People often think just because he's shredded with an impressive physique that he's automatically more athletic than other opponents and that's not always the case. He carries a little too much muscle to be as effective as he could be and lacks the ring IQ and killer instinct to pull all his skills and abilities together.

 

I think Foreman's hands were faster as well, AJ just puts his shots together better.

 

| Rank | Opponent (Result, Year) | Rounds | Total Thrown | Avg / Round |
|------|-------------------------------|--------|--------------|-------------|
| 1 | Johann Duhaupas (TKO11, 2015) | 11 | 587 | **53.36** |
| 2 | Bermane Stiverne I (UD12, 2015)| 12 | 621 | **51.75** |
| 3 | Chris Arreola (RTD8, 2016) | 8 | 346 | **43.25** |
| 4 | Tyson Fury I (Draw, 2018) | 12 | 430 | **35.83** |
| 5 | Dominic Breazeale (KO1, 2019) | 1 | 35 | **35.00** |
| 6 | Luis Ortiz I (KO10, 2018) | 10 | 346 | **34.60** |
| 7 | Eric Molina (TKO9, 2015) | 9 | 303 | **33.67** |
| 8 | Artur Szpilka (KO9, 2016) | 9 | 250 | **27.78** |
| 9 | Luis Ortiz II (KO7, 2019) | 7 | 184 | **26.29** |
| 10 | Gerald Washington (TKO5, 2017) | 5 | 113 | **22.60** |
| — | Tyson Fury II (KO7, 2020) | 7 | 141 | **20.14** |
| — | Robert Helenius (KO1, 2022) | 1 | 17 | **17.00** |

Duhaupas was early in his career. Szpilka was a southpaw. Ortiz 1 was pretty low output but he went “Bombsquad” in at least two or three rounds when he hurt Ortiz. The big guys deeper into his reign are 35 punches thrown per round or fewer.

 

I think Wilder was good at letting his opponents walk onto his shots to be fair.

How much of it was a deliberate tactic depends on how you look it. I think there was a deliberate element to it but Wilder also struggles on the back foot which was his downfall against Fury.

 

That's all cool and all but the common factor here is not the weight of his opponents, just as much has to do with the styles/quality of opponents he was facing and what year the fights took place in.

 

Disagree. Washington, Helenius, and Breazeale weren’t the same quality as Ortiz and Fury but they were all pretty low output fights and all big guys.

Arreola and Stiverne were stocky by comparison and earlier in his reign.

 

Helenius and Breazeale were first round KOs dude, you can’t make a judgement about the output based on that. And Washington was low output because his jab threw Wilder’s timing off.

There’s no evidence that cleanly suggests Wilder automatically drops his output when faced with a big guy, first off literally everyone is heavier than him and second there are too many factors that can be contributing to it.

 

@Journeyman92

Andy Ruiz is an obese less skilled Joe Frazier

 

So based on what Deontay Wilder did… you think Foreman doesn’t get “rag dolled”? Why are we on this topic? Are you referring to AJ not being able to man handle Foreman? Because AJ is a lot stronger than Muhammad Ali and GF I’d bet the house on it and so would you.