Vitali Klitschko 2004-5 status in your eyes

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MaccaveliMacc, Aug 28, 2025 at 8:08 AM.


  1. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,222
    6,377
    Feb 27, 2024
    Did you consider Vitali the legitimate lineal champion after he beat Sanders? I've been doing a little bit of research and it seems like he was universally recognized as the top dog. There are articles calling him the linear champion. Of course some disagreed because Byrd held a victory over him and was a title holder, but the minority of the observers still deny the lineal claim to Wlad, Fury or even Holmes for some strange reason. Seems to me like there was an agreement that Vitali was THE champ, but for some reason it was retconned out of boxing history. Perhaps because he only defended once and retired, unable to lay a solid claim.

    How did you view Vitali's status at the time?
     
  2. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,996
    9,613
    Dec 17, 2018
    Lineal champ? No. #1 HW? Yes.

    My understanding is that a boxer can attain lineage under either of two circumstances:

    1. Beating the lineal champion;
    2. Winning a #1 vs #2 fight in the instance the lineal title is vacant;

    If you believe the same, then the sole question is how you determine the rankings. I base them on the Ring rankings and iirc, which is no guarantee, Vitali was #1 and Byrd #2 when the former fought Sanders.
     
    Man_Machine likes this.
  3. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,553
    3,208
    May 17, 2022
    Lineal is such a nebulous concept I truly don't like it I just prefer looking at who's the best fighter in the division at that point. But I think it was pretty clear he was the number 1 after giving Lewis a handful forcing him to retire and then beating Sanders who beat his brother. No one else was really at his level at that point until his brother came along and beat Byrd of course.
     
  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    26,316
    17,297
    Apr 3, 2012
    He was the heavyweight champion with whatever label you wanted and the Don King champion was the leader of the G League.
     
    themaster458 likes this.
  5. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,525
    9,591
    Jun 9, 2010
    That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell.

    I don't know any record that holds Vitali as a Lineal champ.

    The next to be anointed, after Lewis, was Wlad, some way down the line.

    However, this is where it gets a bit blurred, with some declaring Wlad Lineal after Chagaev - Others only recognizing the new lineage, after Wlad/Pov.
     
    Greg Price99 likes this.
  6. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,399
    3,878
    Jan 6, 2024
    Yes. I consider him lineal champ until his first retirement. At the time Vitali v Sanders was the logical fight to make for the title. It only becomes a problem later on because of Wlad.

    What confuses me about this situation is people acting like you need 1v2 to start a new lineage. And that 1v3 is somehow illegitimite if its not 1v2. Theres no precedent or for this idea it just pops up during this incident with people acting like its a sacred tradition. No it just came out of the blue. Before this there had been 2 new HW lineages that hadn't been determined by some form of tournament.

    5)Maher v 14?)O Donnell
    1)Johnson v 5)Hart

    You don't even need to have 2 top 5ers. Fact that gets overlooked is its not even possible to make a match stronger than 1v3. You can only do 2v4 which wasn't done. There was no alternative HW lineage in 2004 people just wanted Vitali to fight Byrd instead of Sanders. Vitali would retire but fighting 3 instead of 2 doesn't put an asterisk on a title. He could hae fought 2 later.


    The source I use for rankings integrates HW and MW for its early HW rankings and only provides a full ranking for the end of the year. So I made an estimate for O Donnell.
     
    MaccaveliMacc and themaster458 like this.
  7. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,222
    6,377
    Feb 27, 2024
    Do you consider Marvin Hart the lineal champion? Were Hart and Root number 1 and number 2 in the division at the time? Not quite, but he still was a consensus champion, therefore he restarted the lineage. Seems like there was a consensus around Vitali at the time.

    To quote Dan Rafael from his piece on Wlad:

    In his final bout, Lewis defeated Vitali Klitschko, the clear No. 1 contender, in a very competitive fight that Klitschko was winning on the scorecards until it was stopped because of his badly cut eye. Under the circumstances, it was only logical that Klitschko should be involved in the fight to re-establish the lineage.

    Fighting for the alphabet belt that Lewis vacated upon his retirement, Klitschko eventually faced the late Corrie Sanders, a legitimate contender who was coming off an upset knockout win against titleholder Wladimir Klitschko, Vitali's younger brother.

    Vitali Klitschko stopped Sanders in the eighth round in April 2004 in an excellent fight. Besides winning a vacant alphabet belt, Klitschko was also awarded the vacant Ring magazine title, which had been created to clearly identify the legitimate champion in each division (before the magazine's championship policy had been radically altered and muddled).

    There are many who view Vitali's victory over Sanders as his having re-established the lineage following Lewis' retirement. Others aren't so sure.

    Regardless, after Klitschko defeated Danny Williams in his next fight, he retired for nearly four years because of various injuries. That broke the lineage again (or, depending on your view, left it unrepaired post-Lewis).


    Byrd was clear number 2 to be fair and he held a victory over Vitali, so it kind of make Vitali's claim weaker. But if you look at it another way: Vitali won the WBC belt and had the lineage of the WBO belt as Corrie never lost it in the ring. Sanders also beat Wlad who beat Byrd. Vitali was clear number 1, but was it enough to say he re-established the lineage.