Biggest "forums darlings"

He was definitely shot after he fought Norton. He was never right again.

 

Wow, watch his next fight against Zanon. He won that one. But looked pathetic.

 

He did prove he was the best of his era and he held the same number of titles as any undisputed champ at heavyweight before him while another was vacant so that Chis Arreola could scam his way in.

 

You do rate Archie Moore low, correct?

 

When did he prove he was the best of his era? Did Wladmir and Vitali have a secret match in the basement of MGM Grand I wasn't aware of?

He could have had 90 title defenses, it still wouldn't make him undisputed.

Stop replying to me with more dumb **** to save face.

 

Neither Larry Holmes nor Ken Norton looked good against Zanon either.

Lorenzo was a guy who looked like a bartender at some. Fancy upscale hotel bar, and had some up-and-down results, but his bigger fights against American opposition he always showed well. Good hand speed, good footwork, good combo puncher, weak chin.

Maybe Jerry was slipping or maybe he just had the wrong opponent in front of him to look good.

 

The term undisputed doesn't always mean holding all the belts. Sometimes it means that there is no dispute who the champion is. And that was the case between December 2013 and May 2014. Wlad was the universally recognized champion, introduced as undisputed during his fights, with no title holder in sight. Also, "undisputed" is a new concept and you don't have to be one to prove you're the best. Holmes was being called undisputed despite not holding 2 belts of his era. To be fair, Stiverne's claim to the championship when he was holding the WBC strap was almost not existent. You don't become the champion by beating a guy rated number 8 in the world.

He proved it many times over.

 

Undisputed wasn't a "new" concept in Wladmir's era. It's been around since the 80's. It doesn't change because the guy you like didn't get all the belts and wouldn't fight his brother.

Arreola and Stiverne were the #1 and #2 contenders.

 

When did he beat Vitali?

 

He's unanimously ranked the best of his era. Holmes didn't fight Thomas. Lewis didn't fight Bowe.

What you're saying is twaddle.

 

I know. You haven't formed a proper rebuttal to me for literally years.

 

Holmes never unified either. Was he the best of his era? Were people wrong to call him undisputed?

Arreola and Stiverne were no. 1 and no. 2 according to WBC, but not even Top 5 when it comes to universal recognition. WBC crowned a joke of a paper champion. What do you think happens if they take Klitschko to fight for the belt as the universally recognized champion? Well, they preferred to be clowns once again.

He didn't. But Vitali was only active for 4 years of his 10 year reign. So not even the majority of it. He beat every top contender from 06 to 08 and then from 13 to 15. While Vitali was active he also beat 2 numer 3's. Vitali on the other hand has no claim to being the best of his era. Never beat the top contender, never unified and never faced Wlad.

 

They need to face the winner of said vacant title match for it to be official even if it makes complete sense to classify the sole champion as undisputed. Undisputed doesn't mean only champion.

Holmes was never Undisputed but held wbc and ibf at one point and already defeated the guy who ended up holding the wba when Larry still had 2 belts from 1980-1982, and remember the WBO didn't exist back then. He beat 3 contenders who defeated Page. Holmes was seen as the best heavyweight his whole reign after he beat Cooney, even when Pinklon Thomas was around. Although he should have fought Thomas, that was a pretty bad look

 

Wlad was the champion after Vitaly retired, whether you call it undisputed or not. Ali didn't hold all the belts for his first seven defences, but he was still the champion over that period.

 

Yes, they would be wrong to call Holmes undisputed if there was another active champion of a major sanctioning body.

Holmes was definitely undisputed and the #1 HW for a brief window after beating Ali because he had the lineage and all the major belts, but eventually he lost that status due to all the politics and arguing over money. He should've fought guys like Page and Thomas.

You can call Stiverne a paper champion if you want, it doesn't change the fact Wladmir didn't fight for the WBC, nor did he fight Stiverne. He never had all the straps at the same time, and he never proved he was outright the best boxer of his era due to him and Vitali refusing to face each other. These are facts.

4 years is a long time, and you're forgetting Vitali's come back. Vitali was absolutely the 2nd best HW during his own brother's reign, let's stop playing games. You wouldn't bet a single cent on anyone outside Wladmir himself beating Vitali during that era.