Is Wladimir Klitschko a favorite over prime George Foreman and Sonny Liston H2H

I mean Wlad's title reign was pretty clear sign he improved considering how much good opponents he beat throughout and dominated all of them many of whom were better then Peters so I'm not really sure what your point is and why you're fixating on Chambers out of all of them instead of someone like Haye or Byrd or even Pulev.

I've been pretty clear that Peters is a tough, crude but effective brawler who had a good run but Wlad still dominated the fight only losing 3 rounds total and his 3 knockdowns coming from being pushed down after back of the head shots. In fact I just rewatched the fight and you're overstating how much success he had. He struggled besides the knockdowns it was pretty much all Wlad who showed a lot of improvement compared to the Berwster fight against a similar style of opponent. The reason Peter had any success at all was his ability to absorb punishment while lunging forward, creating chaos which is different from how Foreman and Liston fought. That fight tells you very little about how a matchup with them would go, because they don't share Peter's style. Foreman and Liston were not crude, lunging brawlers but methodical stalkers who used powerful jabs to control distance and set up their power shots. A fight against them wouldn't be similar to the Peter fight was it would be a battle of jabs and range control that Wlad would win with his superior footwork, better jab, and clinching. You're comparing apples and oranges just like their fight with Ali doesn't tell you much about how Wlad would do against them because Wlad fought differently then Ali despite both fighting being outboxers.

 

Wlad is an ATG, George and Sonny were off the charts powerful and clever.

George demos him in 4 at the outside, Liston in 7.

 

Eh? Since when did Foreman and Liston fall apart because they couldn't rely on jabs and range control? They had a hell of a lot more in their toolbox than that.

If Foreman couldn't find you with his jab, he'd stalk and parry incoming jabs until he was close enough to land body shots and would try to cut off the ring. I'm trying to figure out which fight Wladmir had where he could enjoy simply jabbing, clinching, and keeping out of range of someone as good as Foreman or Liston. And I said way earlier in the thread Wladmir would have to make some major adjustments if he was penalized for excessive clinching and leaning.

 

Against Ali for one for Foreman against Young. Liston was pretty reliant on his jab to set up his other offense especially his left hook and when he couldn't he didn't look nearly as good.

The only time he did that was against Ali and maybe Young? Neither really ended well for him as we know

I mean if they couldn't get their jabs off how else would they realistically be able to set up and land their punches? Neither was fast enough to just throw naked punches and be able to land on someone as good as Wlad. And if they tried coming close he would either use his footwork to move or clinch when needed. Ali used the clinch well against Foreman to shut him down Wlad would be able to do the same. And I don't think either would be able to walk through Wlad's punches to land their own. So don't really see how they win here.

 

He literally did that in multiple fights including Norton, Lyle, and Ledoux. He didn't just operate behind a jab every night.

This content is protected

He didn't start trying to jab at Norton, he pretty much immediately started stalking him as soon as the bell rings and was pressuring him to the ropes, neutralizing Norton's offense with parrying, went to the body and tried to time his man with big uppercuts and hooks when he saw an opening.

See, here you go again not making any sense. Was Peter a fast speed demon? What about Brewster? Povektin? The ONLY way to land on Wladmir with naked punches is by setting him up with jabs? That is simply not reality lol.

 

He was most effective when he could get off his jab especially against opponents more his size(he also did jab plenty against Norton). When he could bully opponents like Norton sure he could do what you describe but again for that to work he needed to be able to physically overpower people and not be concerned what's coming back at him. Norton landed some solid punches against Foreman he just didn't have the power to keep Foreman off. In the Lyle fight he was almost knocked out and i would say Wlad hits harder then both. So I don't see how he would be able to use the same tactic against Wlad who was bigger then him and who could keep him honest with his jab and his power and if got too close back away with his superior footwork or just clinch when needed.

 

Here's ChatGPT's take on Klitschko-Liston:

Likely Outcome

• If it’s a short, aggressive fight, Liston’s power and relentlessness might overwhelm Klitschko before he could settle into his rhythm.
  
  
• But in a 12-round, modern-rules fight, the odds lean toward Klitschko: his size, reach, and disciplined style are designed to nullify aggressive punchers. He’d likely frustrate Liston, jab-and-grab his way to a decision, or wear Liston down for a late stoppage.
  

Verdict: In their primes, under modern conditions, I’d slightly favor Wladimir Klitschko by decision or late TKO. But if you drop them in a 1960s setting (15 rounds, less clinching tolerated, smaller gloves), Liston’s chances improve a lot — he might stop Wlad mid-fight.

And here's the take on Klitschko-Foreman:

Likely Outcome

• Early rounds (1–5): This is where the danger lies for Wlad. Foreman’s swarming power and pressure would be unlike anything he faced in his career. Given Wlad’s history with aggressive punchers, it’s hard to imagine him surviving without being badly hurt.
  
  
• Later rounds (6–12): If Wlad somehow clinches, leans, and jabs enough to drag Foreman deep, his size and conditioning edge might take over. But that’s a big “if,” considering Foreman’s raw power and ability to cut off the ring.
  

Verdict: I’d strongly favor George Foreman by KO, likely within 5 rounds. Klitschko’s size and discipline give him a theoretical path to victory, but stylistically, he’s tailor-made for Foreman — tall, upright, sometimes stiff, and vulnerable to pressure.

 

A poster asked me why I picked George to whup Wlad but not Sonny. I pick George because his bullying tactics aren't going to work against him.

 

You need to be more clear. Who's bullying tactics aren't going to work against whom?

 

Regardless off how it goes for you and others, you got me with that.

I do be giving Wlad **** for his failures and not enough respect for his successes.

Weak excuses like talent simply left division. Or, can't tell you how many times I have given Wlad the biz for having a resume of short, fat, old dudes.

Truth is that's hyper focusing and allowing some confirmation bias. ... Haye was not untalented. Chris Bryd was brilliant. Yes, even Pulev, his shitty little left hook jab mixing jab. It was differenrt and gave people problems even if Pulev didn't have much else.

Anyway, I just wanted to say good point bro, I shouldn't be such a dick to Wlad.

 

A major source of those “opinions” is data collected from this forum.

 

Basing your picks on chatgpt is beyond absurd. Ask 5 times, you'll get five answers.

Here's what I got.


Sonny Liston vs Wladimir Klitschko
Sonny Liston (Prime: early 1960s)

• Height/Reach: 6’1”, 84” reach
  
  
• Style: Aggressive pressure fighter, devastating jab, crushing power, excellent inside work
  
  
• Defense: Elite—slipping, parrying, controlling distance; very hard to hit cleanly
  
  
• Stamina: Excellent; could sustain pressure across 12–15 rounds (e.g., Eddie Machen fight)

Wladimir Klitschko (Prime: 2006–2015)

• Height/Reach: 6’6”, 81” reach
  
  
• Style: Methodical jab-heavy, clinch-and-reset, disciplined, long-range control, powerful straight right
  
  
• Defense: Very good at maintaining distance and neutralizing aggressive fighters
  
  
• Stamina: Limited in early rounds if forced into high-pressure situations; relies on controlling pace and conserving energy
  

Matchup Dynamics
1. Jab Battle:

• Liston had a faster, heavier, more punishing jab than Wlad, especially at mid-range.
  
  
• Wlad’s jab is longer but slower; Liston could slip and counter effectively if he closed the distance quickly.
  

2. Inside Fighting / Pressure:

• Liston’s strength is constant pressure and inside work—devastating against fighters who don’t like being bullied.
  
  
• Wlad prefers to fight at range; if Liston closes the distance and forces exchanges, Wlad would be uncomfortable and potentially vulnerable.
  

3. Power Exchange:

• Both had fight-ending power. Wlad’s straight right is precise; Liston’s combination punching and short-range clubbing are brutal.
  
  
• Early rounds could go either way; if Liston lands first in close range, Wlad could be hurt.
  

4. Stamina / Pace Control:

• Liston has a clear edge. He can sustain constant aggression, while Wlad struggles if pressured continuously.
  

Probable Outcomes
Scenario Likely Winner Notes
Old-school 1960s rules (15 rounds, smaller gloves, less clinching) Liston Constant pressure, superior stamina, and inside power would dominate; Wlad would struggle to impose his range.
Modern heavyweight rules (12 rounds, controlled clinching) Liston favored Even with Wlad’s size and reach, sustained pressure from Liston could neutralize his jab-and-reset style.
Early rounds (first 4–6) Either Both can land fight-ending punches; first clean shot could decide it.
Bottom Line:

• Stamina and pressure give Liston a significant advantage.
  
  
• Size and reach favor Wlad slightly, but he would have difficulty imposing his style if Liston closes distance aggressively.
  
  
• Overall: Liston is the favorite in a realistic, historically grounded matchup.
  
  
  
  Liston vs Foreman
  
  1. Physical Attributes
  Fighter Height Reach Weight Build/Style Notes
  Foreman (prime, ~1973) 6'3" 78" ~220–230 lbs Muscular, explosive, very durable; brawler/puncher
  Wladimir Klitschko (prime, ~2010) 6'6" 81" ~245 lbs Long, lean, methodical; jab-heavy, technical, powerhouse in straight punches
  Edge: Slight reach and height advantage to Wlad. Foreman has more raw mass and natural power.
  
  2. Style
  • Foreman: Aggressive, pressure fighter. He could absorb punishment and retaliate with devastating hooks and overhand rights. His early-career fights often ended quickly due to sheer power. Not a very technical boxer—relied on intimidation and knockout power.
    
    
  • Wlad: Classic modern heavyweight style. Extremely disciplined, fights at range, dominates with the jab, straight right hand, and footwork. Excellent defense and patience; fights intelligently to wear down opponents.
    
  Edge: Wlad for technical skill and control, Foreman for raw power.
  
  3. Durability
  • Foreman: Incredible chin, very hard to hurt in his early prime.
    
    
  • Wlad: Durable, but against someone who could land big bombs early (like prime Foreman), he might struggle initially.
    
  Edge: Slightly to Foreman for one-shot resistance, but Wlad could last long due to conditioning and disciplined defense.
  
  4. Stamina
  • Foreman: His early prime fights were short; stamina was less tested over long fights. Could slow down in later rounds.
    
    
  • Wlad: Great conditioning for extended fights, rarely gasses, thrives in 12-round pace.
    
  Edge: Wlad.
  
  5. Likely Dynamics
  • Early Rounds: Foreman would try to close distance and land his knockout shots. Wlad would try to control distance with jab and straight right.
    
    
  • Mid Rounds: If Foreman misses early, Wlad can start breaking him down with long punches, avoiding brawling exchanges.
    
    
  • Late Rounds: Foreman might tire if he hasn’t landed a KO. Wlad’s technical advantage and conditioning would dominate.
    
  6. Likely Outcome
  • Short Fight (KO early): Slight edge to Foreman, because one clean shot could change everything.
    
    
  • Extended Fight (Full 12 Rounds): Wladimir almost certainly wins by decision or late stoppage, controlling distance, exploiting technical advantages, and avoiding Foreman’s big shots.
    
  Verdict:
  
  • Power vs. Technique: Foreman’s power is terrifying, but Wlad’s discipline, reach, and conditioning would probably neutralize it over time.
    
    
  • Smart Money: Wlad wins on points in a long fight, but Foreman has a legitimate chance to end it early with a KO.
    
  If you want, I can also compare their fight IQ and how Foreman would have to adjust to avoid Wlad’s jab-heavy style, which is key to understanding if an early KO is realistic. Do you want me to do that?
  

 

Well at least we both agree, chatgpt is useless when it comes to predicting hypothetical fights.

 

https://chatgpt.com/s/t_68bb0f5778808191ad09e04e56830204

 

This was it's attempt to correct me.
Defensive skills: Liston’s defense was excellent. His ability to slip, parry, and counter was elite, as evidenced in his fight against Doug Jones (not Williams, I think you mean the Doug Jones fight) and later against contenders like Floyd Patterson. He was very hard to hit cleanly, even by the best of his era.

Stamina: Liston’s stamina was solid. Going 12 rounds with Mac Foster and 12 with Mac Machen shows he could maintain pressure over the full distance when needed.