Oleksandr Oleksandrovych Usyk vs. Joseph Dennis Parker Lupesoliai

Always been a fan of Parker but he will not beat Usyk. I can definitely see him making it to the final bell.

Parker has been on an excellent roll but Usyk is the Monster to end that streak

 

Turki is using boxing to sportswash his countries human rights abuses.
He tried and failed to do the same with football. They've had some success with golf and motorsports, but boxing has been their best attempt by far.
His goal is not to make money, or the best fights, simply to bring the most attention and an air of legitimacy to his petrostate.

He's not a fan. He has an agenda. Don't forget.
This is why he won't make the Parker or Kabayel fights for Usyk - they aren't popular enough for his goals despite being the best fights in the division.

 

I think its actually the opposite, Turki is a fan and is using his country's desire to sportswash to support his own hobby, its just that to him its like a kid playing with his action figures, he has his favourites and ones he doesn't like and just sets them up however he wants.

 

Fair points.

The difference between Parker and Kabayel is styles (point fighting vs KO), and Parker has simply faced more dangerous opposition over his career. That's why I think Parker is more deserving overall, but I'd equally be as excited to see Kabayel get a shot.

I also wouldn't pick Mahkmudov to beat Wilder. Mahkmudov is tailor made for Wilder imo and he'd get sparked out in 4 rounds. Interesting fight though.

 

Parker - usyk and kabayel - usyk are currently the worldwide most popular , wanted and best purse fights .

Turki does not care the money . While it might sound massive what purse we are talking , saudi arabia has this money earned during lunch break from oil sales . Turki just wants a big show .

Ukraine and usyk also do not care the money . No oil sales but everday a truckload of cash from european union , and of course usyk is goverment supported .

Usyk,s only current mission is to never loose a fight cause thats not what zelensky wants to show his people .

 

Opetaia IF he steps up (Turki pushing him to) and IF his power and speed translate to HW.

Two big unknowns and I am not at all saying he’d win but Opetaia does have the chin, power and engine to give Usyk a competitive fight IF the above questions are answered positively.

 

I guess the fact still remains that Parker has the wins and Kabayel doesn’t which is what makes Parker slightly more deserving.

For example, we all know that Kabayel beats Wilder to a pulp but he still hasn’t fought him. Parker has. That’s a tick for Parker. The fact that Kabayel beat Zhang more convincingly than Parker did is a moot point. That’s just twisting triangle theory to suit an argument.

Parker deserves the next shot at Usyk. Kabayel the one after subject to what may or may not happen with Opetaia. If Opetaia unifies (probably unlikely in the short term) then he’d become mandatory anyway.

 

I wonder how that would work sanctioning body wise, since Parker is with the WBO so their mandatory would go to the back of rotation, yet the WBO is the one who mandates a champ from a lower weight class who becomes undisputed a title shot in the higher weight class.

I suppose Turki would just make it happen without there having to be a mandatory or sanctioning body backing it

 

Apparently Opetaia would get a number 3 ranking from at least one governing body if he stepped up now. Turki rates him and is pushing for it which means he’s likely looking at Opetaia to fight an eliminator and then potentially Usyk.

Opetaia has said he wants all the CW belts first but Zurdo is injured and Jack won’t fight him in a million years.

 

Well if you're complaining about twisting triangle theories I have to say that there isn't much more to go on from. It's pretty obvious that kabayel's performance against zhang was more impressive and zhang was 10 months older than against parker and a clear favorite.

The tick with wilder in my opinion is one on marketing, not boxing prowess. Wilder didn't perform one bit in there. It's like giving chisora massive credit for beating wallin without accounting for how wallin fought. (I am still impressed by how much chisora achieves at his age and how much he has learned in old age btw, reminds me of foreman just a bit)

No let's go on about the 'wins' parker has that kabayel doesn't. Because in the end it's 'fights' that he has, not 'wins':

Between his losses to joshua and whyte he has fought:

Oct 23 Simon Kean 23 1 0
May 23 Faiga Opelu 15 3 2
Jan 23 Jack Massey 20 1 0
Sep 22 Joe Joyce 14 0 0
Dec 21 Derek Chisora 32 11 0
May 21 Derek Chisora 32 10 0
Feb 21 Junior Fa 19 0 0
Feb 20 Shawndell Winters 13 2 0
Jun 19 Alex Leapai 32 7 4
Dec 18 Alexander Flores* 17 1 1

Now in those fights he won twice against chisora, which had already lost against kabayel 4 years earlier (try the 'younger when beat by my favorite fighter' argument here...) and lost against Joyce. Those are the relevant fights and that's what people are talking about?

That's experience, granted, but where are those 'wins' that separate Parker from kabayel?

Disputed win against ruiz in auckland
Loss against joshua
Loss against whyte
Wins against chisora
Loss against joyce

And now three fights that I can't separate in quality from kabayel's last three fights.

I don't think that previous experience is as massive an argument for how much parker deserves his shot compared to kabayel when you see the effect of the experience in their last three fights anyways. Parker gave us a lot of good fights, but by that measure why not give chisora the shot. He is unbeatable by that account.

Historically, when Parker stepped up he was in trouble. People will argue that he has grown and that is exactly my point:
Why bring all those old fights into the discussion when his actual claim to his shot lies in his most recent fights and the old fights pale in comparison to the recent ones...

Just - like - kabayel.

Btw I know kabayel's opponents were way worse, but again - recent fights are what it's actually about here. You don't qualify for your title shot by having beat chisora a few years back...

In the end it is a moot point anyways, because earning potential and the belt-maneuvering will play the deciding role in determining who gets the shot. But here we are arguing, whether parker 'deserves' it more than kabayel.

And btw: had itauma beaten any three of the recent opponents of parker or kabayel - you know who would instantly get the shot at the title without a massive resume from years back.

 

So in hindsight knowing everything we know now, how would rank each of Parker's and Kabayel's recent opponents at the time of each fight?

For example when Wilder fought Parker most people had Wilder in the top 10, even in the top 5. But with hindsight where would you say he actually sat at the time?

 

I don't think I am misremembering it this much - wilder had lost devastatingly against fury and didn't fight for a year. Than had his weird one round clash with helenius and a mental breakdown after, talked about this mexican drug and whatever and then a year later fought parker. I don't think people had him in the top five. There was retirement talk all over the internet. I certainly was surprised that he took on parker and assumed that turki made him and really wondered and see it as a lapse of judgement of the saudi prince who wanted to put on aj-wilder years after it mattered. Wilder doesn't pull the trigger anymore.

I admit I have trouble ranking them absolutely because the landscape shifts and people like wallin drop, itauma comes up, only chisora always stays around that number ten spot :-D

For example I have no idea how high kabayels actual ranking should have been before the makhmudov fight and all that time in between.

Also sanchez's ranking should have been higher than his on the night performance. Same with bakole.

Let's do it like this. If I was a generic heavyweight in the top five right now and I had to fight them, I would face their opponents (at the time and with their on the night performance) with decreasing confidence:

Sanchez (injured)
Wilder (gunshy)
Bakole (jetlagged overweight unprepared)
Makhmudov (big slugger, always risky)
Zhang(kabayel)
Zhang(Parker)

Though sanchez-wilder and makh-bakole could be switched. So all in all pretty much close as it can get.

And you know what? Had Dubois not ducked Parker we wouldn't have this discussion. Because either parker would have won and had the clearly better opposition or lost and the Point would be moot

 

You are misremembering it. Wilder was universally rated in the Top 4 of HW at the time. Fury fights took a toll on him, but after he sparked Helenius in the first round (who had 2 very good showings against a Top 10 guy Adam Kownacki) people just thought Fury was just too good for him and he's still that dangerous Wilder from before. That's why he was a heavy favorite going into the Parker fight and journalists were so disrespectful towards Joe asking him if he's not afraid of getting slept by "Dr. Sleep", lol.

 

On that side note: had turki made wilder go up against joshua right away and had joshua not fought dubois - how different things would have turned out.

Joshua wins easily against wilder and looks great doing it, doesn't lose devastatingly against dubois, probably gets the title dubois got. Loses again against usyk. It was a mistake not doing it like that and maybe instead of blaming themselves for it they blame parker?

 

Wanted to share Chisora’s quote on Parker:
“Joseph Parker is a girl you meet with your friend, and you have to take one for the team, but your dick don’t even get hard for that ****.”

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