Ezzard Charles has one of the best HW records

I know you don't rate fighters till they are done but would you suspect Uysk would be above him at this point?

 

P4P based on total career fights in all weight divisions? Not a chance. Though, as an Usyk fan, if it's any consolation, I suspect I won't rank any boxer in history who had fewer pro fights than Usyk higher than Uysk p4p.

At HW based on fights contested at HW, by the definition of the rules of their respective eras? I don't know. I've not given it much thought. If he were to retire without fighting again, I suspect I'd find Usyk very difficult to rank at HW. Unbeaten and 5 wins over HWs ranked in the top 2 in the world aside from himself compares very favourably to most other ATG HWs. The problem is his almost complete lack of depth before it.

I'll be analysing all time CWs soon, where he will surely be top 2 all time, in one position or the other.

 

Yeah sorry I meant just HW but thanks anyway you still responded to it.

 

Depends on how how you balance elite wins vs depth, I suppose.

My ranking take account of all factors, not just top 15 wins, so I've never thought about it in detail in solely those terms. I suspect if I did, I'd have Ali, Louis, Lewis, Holmes, Marciano, Johnson, Wlad, Tyson, Foreman, Frazier, Holyfield and Wills higher.

That's 12 based solely on top 15 wins. If you then factor in utter dominance over the field, as I do, I also clearly see Jeffries and Liston above Charles, as well as Dempsey, just slightly. Those are the 15 I have above Charles and am comfortable with that.

 

Easily. Usyk is fighting actual HWs and even at CW was fighting guys larger then anyone Charles ever beat.

 

Agreed

 

Because size is pretty hard to overcome its why weight classes are thing. Keep in mind the only decent sized HW Charles fought he lost to (Valdes) who was not particularly good either. No knock on Charles he's a great fighter and one of the best P4P ever but he was not a great HW.

 

Let me ask you this would you favor Charles against any ATG HW? Be honest.

 

His style and personality, but also him fighting on when he was way past his prime and taking on a lot of unnecessary losses also hurts him when people rank him.

Charles wasn't lacking ability wise and could beat anybody when he only cared about winning and not impressing the crowd, but the constant criticisms of him being called boring by the press and his heavyweight peers resulted in him taking on a more aggressive style that cost him some of his important fights at heavyweight.

Here is a piece with Gene Tunney giving his opinion on Ezzard Charles

Former heavyweight champion James J. (Gene) Tunney says "Ezzard Charles is a courageous fighter but not a great champion".
Tunney, commander of a New York City American Legion post, is here for the Legion national convention.
https://imgur.com/Zv4nXNM

Jim Jeffries and Tom Sharkey on Ezzard Charles

Jeffries, who retired as an undefeated champion and then came back for his lamentable affair with Jack Johnson, won from Sharkey in 20 rounds and repeated in a savage battle of 25, Nov. 3, 1899.

"Men like Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott would be lucky to be preliminary men in the day s of real fighters," says the one-time boilermaker, who at 74 is retired and living in Burabank.

"The trouble is that the boys won't train"

"They want money too fast."

"They don't know anything about boxing, and don't care to learn."

Sharkey works as a guard at a Stockton, Calif., motor pool.

"Charles is a second-rater," asserts Sailor Tom.

Most of the present big-time fighters couldn't carry water for the battlers of my day.

"At 77, I could still lick all of them myself."
https://imgur.com/v0D2dF8

Here is a piece from Sam Lacy giving his opinion on Ezzard Charles

... Although Ezzard is rated as a good boxer and clever puncher by many of the best brains in the boxing business, he has never looked like a champion in fights covered by me ... In short, I have never seen Charles "look good" as they say in the trade ... Against Elmer Ray he was just ordinary; against Jersey Joe Walcott, he was the winner - that's all ... As I saw that fight, Charles didn't win because he was better than Walcott. He won because Walcott was worse than he ... And against Gus Lesnevich, Ez scored a kayo but I was happy that I wasn't a cash customer.
https://imgur.com/yJ9yqfx