If they both retired today, would Joshua or Fury have the better legacy?

However UKAD never ignored it ! The dark cloud was the Hamer fight on 28/2/15 were both Fury’s popped for elevated levels of Nandrolone (the exact numbers never released). Tyson Fury was then tested 5 times prior to the Klitschko fight with all coming back negative. 11 May,16 July,8 Oct,17 Oct,11 Nov. He was then tested 1 time in 2016 and 1 time in 2017 . Then Fury does an interview for Rolling Stone Magazine admitting Drink and Cocaine use ( not sure on date) he then gets called in by another agency for testing iirc and when he does give a test he blows hot for said Cocaine.
https://www.ukad.org.uk/news/article/UKAD-and-Mr-Tyson-Fury-and-Mr-Hughie-Fury-issue-joint-statement

 

Fury beat:

18 consecutive defence A-side 39 Wlad, in Germany

10 consecutive defence A-side Wilder over a trilogy (2-0-1), in America

Fury lost to:

Usyk x2


Joshua beat:

17 months dethroned B-side 41 Wlad, in Britain

Joshua lost to:

Ruiz, Usyk x2, Dubois


Fury's best wins (Wlad, Wilder 2) were more impressive performances than we ever saw from Joshua. Fury's trilogy with Wilder was an all time classic. Fury came closer to beating Usyk. Fury proved he could upset the odds away from home in mega fights. Joshua quit against Ruiz in the biggest upset loss since Tyson-Douglas and never returned to America. Joshua was also KO'd by Dubois, Fury has never been KO'd. Joshua never fought another member of the "big three". Joshua did better against some lesser fighters Fury underestimated, as Price did with McDermott. Fury was ranked on the P4P list, held all of the belts and fought for undisputed. Fury will make the HoF and fast, Joshua is less certain.

It's not close and there's no doubt that Joshua would swap his legacy for Fury's in an instant, Fury certainly would not.

Fury's career/legacy is a case of "What if?", Joshua's is a case of hype greatly exceeding reality.

 

I agree with some of what you have posted but still undecided as I also think defences are important when considering

Fury and Joshua won their first world titles Nov 2015 and Apr 2016
So within 6 months of each other
Come the end of 2018

Fury made 0 defences and was 1-0-1 in world title fights

Joshua made 6 defences won 2 unification bouts was 7-0-0 in world title fights

Even now in title defences

Fury - Wilder, Whyte, Chisora

Joshua - Wladimir, Parker, Povetkin, Pulev, Breazeale, Takam, Molina


Personally, I think both have had great careers and been excellent for British boxing

 

How they got their titles is vastly different. AJ probably would have got one eventually anyway, but don't even pretend they had the same difficulties.

Fury won his title against reigning champ Wlad. He won his other title against reigning champ Wilder.

AJ got a manufactured shot against a C opponent only because Fury was stripped two weeks after winning and could do nothing about it as Wlad demanded a rematch clause. AJ also got the other belt in the Wlad fight if I recall, and Wlad was less of an opponent then.
Then he got another of Fury's belts from Parker, who'd beaten nobody.

Fury never KO'd despite fighting Wlad and Wilder x3.
AJ got KO'd twice and the Ruiz TKO is impossible to live down.

Fury took the bigger risks obviously. He fought Wlad away at 26 years when most that young were avoiding Wlad including Povetkin. AJ fought Wlad in Wlad's retirement fight after Fury beat him.
Fury fought Wilder on the comeback when advised not to and not truly prepared and then did a trilogy which was the riskiest trilogy anyone ever fought. AJ never fought Wilder.
Fury fought Usyk twice at HW after Usyk was proven and when Fury was past it. AJ fought Usyk as the favourite with Usyk unproven at HW.

Fury did better against Usyk because he actually is better than AJ.

AJ had a run calculated by his handlers. All his best wins are old fighters. He clearly avoided Wilder for the last years at least. AJ wanted the Fury fight all on his terms and dodged it at least twice. He wanted it at the end when he was looking for a last big money fight.

Love AJ, great fella, role model, all the rest. But Fury clearly has the better 'career' when you look closer, and is better. That doesn't mean AJ had no chance to beat Fury. But Fury wins their rivalry.

 

Another indication that it's Fury is how desperate Joshua is to fight him these days. He wasn't nearly as keen in the past (after Fury dethroned Wlad and Wilder respectively), Joshua was saying "I need more experience" and "last year right..." in response to questions about fighting him.

Fury isn't so interested because beating Joshua means very little at this stage. He's been beaten four times, twice KO'd by non-elite opponents. Joshua's blown his chance multiple times now. It's probably not nearly the money fight it was either. Whereas if Fury loses, he was beaten by a hypejob at the end of his career in a cash out, so he falls below said hypejob in the legacy stakes. Fury's happy to stick and Joshua is desperate to twist.

 

Kind of 50\50 for me. Joshua fought the better, more consistent competition. But suffered some bad losses.
Fury seemed to fight sporadically at a higher level ... but was less interested in pushing himself. And his overall CV reflects that. He has higher highs, as it were. But Joshua has more quality names. You get the sense that Fury was probably the better overall fighter of the two. But he wasn't disciplined enough in his career to prove it.
Ultimately I feel AJ probably reached his potential wheras Fury did not. But that's not really relevant here. Both have pretty similar standing IMO. Though I do feel Joshua gets more undeserved criticism.

 

Has to be Fury.

Champion Klitschko in Germany
Champion Wilder in America
Gave Usyk his hardest fight in Saudi
Three dominant wins over top 10 fighter Chisora
Dominant win over then top 5 Whyte

The risks taken, the versatility, the span over which all this was done, that is legacy building. His career was not one of promotion and calculation; he took on opponents when they had "it" and took "it" from them. He also has only lost twice to perhaps the GOAT HW.

 

Joshua had a much better range of amateur achievements; he was also one of the most notable names in UK sport in the 2010s. Fury is the naturally better boxer, but if we are talking about legacy alone, then I'd go for Joshua because of London 2012 and the Wlad night at Wembley.

I watched the AJ-Wlad fight in a packed bar with people on their feet screaming and standing on tables. The Fury-Klitschko fight had the same bar half full and people going out for a smoke 3 or 4 times. It was dog****. Legacy and talent are two different things in my book, and for AJ and Fury, they're 1-1 in these two categories. The icing on the cake is the Fury-Ngannou fight, an excruciatingly poor performance, and that's the one that gets brought up most often when I'm discussing Fury with people who don't really consider themselves boxing fans.

 

My issue was more that the Hammer fight was a final eliminator for Klitschko. He got caught taking anabolic steroids in February 2015 during the run up, and then fought Klitschko in November of 2015 (even if he passed subsequent tests, I'm sure he still benefited from the PEDs taken 9 months prior).

UKAD conveniently back dated Fury's two-year ban for nandrolone to start from December 2015. Clearly British boxing didn't want to have to admit their world champion was a cheat, and the Hammer and Klitschko fights should have been ruled NC

 

Something certainly went on,would be nice to know what the elevated levels were .

 

Martin was a reigning champion when Joshua beat him
Of course he wasn't considered as a great like Wladimir

Fury didn't defend any of the belts at that time
He didn't fight again for I think over 2 years

Why was he less of an opponent then?
He hadn't been out of the gym as he was training for the Fury rematch that was cancelled twice I recall

Who was another reigning champion
Parker had beaten Takam and Ruiz at that time as well as H Fury

Joshua wasn't KOd vs Wlad and we don't know how Fury would fair if he fought Dubois at that time. He hasn't fought him. Although I would favour Fury it is unknown

Why?
Joshua had been on a run of facing -
Wlad in a unification, Takam, Parker in a unification, Povetkin and then Ruiz
He was in several big fights consistently. It can happen

Joshua was earlier in his career and not in a position to face Wladimir at the time Fury faced him
That's not diminishing the great achievement of Fury. Far from, but Joshua was earlier in his career and at an earlier stage

Which was around the time Fury was due to rematch Wlad
When was Joshua supposed to fight him?

Fury was champion but not defending, so Joshua couldn't challenge him
Wladimir was the #1 HW when Joshua fought him
If Fury wasn't fighting or defending, how was he supposed to challenge him?

It was a trilogy because Fury didn't win the first fight
I thought Fury was the winner personally, but that was the reason it was a trilogy
We know Joshua had signed to face Fury

He may be better. But we don't know for sure, but I don't see that argument as all fights are different. You could make similar points with Ngannou or Wallin but as said all fights are different

I think the fight got signed when Fury had the WBC title and Joshua the other 3 titles

I think an argument can be made for either
The issues that I often have/questions is

- if Fury wasn't defending after the Wlad fight, how was Joshua supposed to challenge him and how is it down to Joshua the fight couldn't be made at that time?

- People comment that Joshua picked up the titles Fury relinquished, but what was Joshua supposed to do?
Fury won those 3 titles in one fight. Joshua had to challenge 3 different fighters to win those titles
Was he not supposed to chase the other title holders?

 

Fury has the better legacy and the poll result reflecting that.

 

Fury if for no other reason than he ended the reign of a top 10 (by accomplishment) HW.

Joshua never came close to anything like that.

That being said, neither have much of a legacy. They won't be discussed much in 20 years.

 

It doesn't seem that cut and dry yet
It is not even 60/40 atm