Is Wladimir Klitschko a favorite over prime George Foreman and Sonny Liston H2H

Puritty as well LOL

Of course that was after Elieser Castillo sorted him first. He drew with some guy sporting a 15-14 record right before bro took him on, one wonders how Puritty even got that fight with Vitali LOL

 

This is venturing off into conspiracy land, but it seemed the Klitschkos absolutely weren't going to stand for anyone managing to beat them, even if it meant avenging each other's losses lol. To this day, Vitali never got over the Lewis fight because he was one who "got away" so to speak.

Didn't the reason the Valuev fights fall apart is because they expected him to agree to fight the both of them or no deal?

 

George Foreman decapitates jab and grab Wlad in 2 horrible rounds. Wlad was a consistent champion, but let's not pretend he didn't benefit from being around in a dreadful era full of B-rate fighters who would've got eviscerated in any other era.

 

1

Chatgpt:
Why the fight never happened

Vitali vs. Valuev was actually very close to being made in 2009. After Vitali beat Juan Carlos Gómez, negotiations started for a fight with Valuev in Germany.

Reports said Valuev was offered around $2.5 million, but his promoter Wilfried Sauerland demanded more, considering the event’s size. Negotiations collapsed. Instead, Valuev fought David Haye (and lost a majority decision).

After that, Vitali fought Kevin Johnson in late 2009.

Valuev retired in 2009 (he later said injuries and a rare bone condition made it impossible to continue).

 

I rewatched the Frazier and Norton fights for this discussion. Both men landed clean punches on Foreman. The only difference is that Foreman was able to walk through their shots to land his own, which obviously had more effect. You ignore this because it’s inconvenient for your narrative that Foreman would be able to just stalk Wladimir down. Foreman was hittable, but unlike them, Wlad has the power to make him pay for every mistake.

You keep laying out this game plan for Foreman, but you're treating Wladimir like a stationary punching bag, not a long-reigning champion. You're assuming Wlad would just let Foreman get into range to go to the body, or that Foreman could just magically parry his jab. Wlad can either time his jab to get through a parry, or he can feint the jab to draw the parry and come over the top with a left hook, a combination he mastered. So I'll ask again: how is Foreman going to deal with someone he can't cut the ring off against, can't get close enough to work the body, and can't reliably defend the jab?

Regarding the clinch, you're missing the crucial details of the Ali-Foreman fight. If you actually watch it, Ali only got hit with those hard body shots when he chose to back himself into the ropes and cover up, letting Foreman tire himself out. That was a deliberate rope-a-dope strategy. When Ali was the one initiating the clinch in the center of the ring, Foreman's punches were short and ineffective, which is exactly what happens to Wladimir's opponents when he ties them up.

This proves my point entirely. Wladimir isn't going to play rope-a-dope. He would keep the fight in the center of the ring, picking Foreman off with his 1-2 and using his superior footwork. If Foreman did get close, Wlad would use his bigger frame and technique to tie him up completely, a tactic that we saw a smaller Ali already use effectively.

So at this point, we're just going in circles. You have yet to provide any real scenario for a Foreman victory beyond him being able to execute his game plan for free, with Wlad just letting it happen. We both know that's not realistic. If you want to agree to disagree, that's fine, because it's clear we will never agree.

 

Would have be interesting to see Vitali fight Valuev just to see how he would have navigated Valuev's size from a stylistic perceptive . Same with Wlad as well.

 

Yeah, I'd watch either. Valuev had a good thing going in terms of making money against limited opponents. I can understand why he and his team would avoid the Klitschko's, if thats what happenend.

 

He's talking like Foreman was JCC.

 

I think both beat him points. Would have liked to see it just to see how it would have looked from a style standpoint though.

 

The fight didn't happen because Vitali's manager said it wasn't financially interesting and they had no desire for the WBA belt.

https://www.espn.com/blog/dan-rafael/post/_/id/314/no-truth-v-klitschko-valuev-reports

Valuev stated they were trying to tie him up with rematch clauses.

"But another item that bothered Valuev were the contract terms.

He claims the contract would have locked him down in a never ending circle. If he would have beaten Vitali, he claims the contract would have called for him to face Vitali in an immediate rematch, and if he would have beaten Vitali again - then he would have been contracted to face younger brother Wladimir Klitschko - and then if Valuev won he would have had to face Wladimir in a rematch. He says the contractual terms would have kept him fighting the Klitschko brothers until he lost"

https://www.*******.com/articles/valuev-explains-why-klitschko-fight-never-happened

No, I'm describing him accurately according to what's on film.

I'm arguing with a nut who insists Foreman "got hit plenty" in his fight with Frazier. He has never seen the fight if he's dying on that hill.

At this point, I can only assume you need to see an eye doctor, or perhaps you have dyslexia. Nowhere in my post did I suggest Wladmir would just "let" Foreman execute his game plan.

Me suggesting Wladmir may get hit by body shots while attempting to stall with clinches when even Ali had to deal with some serious body shots isn't me suggesting Wladmir would just let Foreman do what he wants. Me suggesting Foreman might give Wladmir problems parrying his jab isn't my imagination, it's an actual skill Foreman had that we can see on film and it's anyone's guess if Wladmir could overcome it. Me suggesting Foreman could cut off the ring (again, an actual skill we SEE him use) and thinking Wladmir may tire out attempting to use his legs for 12 rounds when he's a pretty tall, heavy guy isn't a crazy suggestion.

Apparently the idea of Wladmir struggling in a fight due to another boxer having tools that could frustrate him is a foreign concept to you even though we've seen the man lose nearly half a dozen times by various styles.

We're going in circles because you attack strawman arguments, are biased, and argue in bad faith whenever someone makes a valid point they can actually back up. It has nothing to do with me being incapable of agreeing with someone lol, you are hard headed, dishonest, and have this issue with multiple posters.

 

Posting an excuse that Valuev made or some deep internet archive piece that Rafael wrote isn’t the same as knowing the truth.

 

Translation:

"Any source that disagrees with me is invalid or biased".

 

I love people bringing up the things Foreman did in the Norton and Frazier matches to prove Wladimir can beat him lol, Foreman was a completely different fighter against bigger men.

 

I didn’t post an opinion on this.

 

Pot meet kettle