Reality Check Time! Oleksandr Usyk is Still The P4P Number One Fighter On The Planet. This Is Why...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Sep 15, 2025 at 10:37 PM.


  1. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

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    AJ and Canelo are both plodding bums.

    P4P is a duff concept

    Usyk and Crawford are both great who cares to argue over resumes lol
     
  2. Banana-Rama

    Banana-Rama Active Member Full Member

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    Usyk was competing as a middleweight when he was 19 years old, does that mean Usyk is a blown up middleweight? Different bodies mature at different rates.
     
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  3. kdyehs

    kdyehs Active Member Full Member

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    And Usyk said it is Crawford the P4P number 1.

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    And this was before Crawford schooled Canelo.
     
  4. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    People grow. But Crawford competed at 140 until he was 30, was 157lbs in the ring against Postol. Canelo probably hadn’t even hit puberty when he stepped in the ring that low.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, Armstrong is above Crawford. Pacquiao too. But these are two of the greatest feats in the history of combat sports. If you go for those in determining who is over him, it's clear what you're really saying...
     
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  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, that's why using middleweight is so important. There's no former lightweight lineal that has been middleweight lineal either, and that goes back for forever and through all money eras. I'm not even sure how many have tried but Duran came closest I'd guess, with Hagler. It's basically been impossible for a meaningful career lightweight (a lightweight who has had a meaningful career at the weight) to do anything above 154 with The Man.
     
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  7. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    It's a difficult thing to weigh against Usyk's weight climb.

    THERE IS NO WEIGHT LIMIT in the HW division.

    Everybody below HW is receiving a handicap because they can't compete in the open class. Usyk went up in weight to compete in the unlimited weight class where he could actually be significantly outweighed inside the ring. Usyk took no handicap, just flat out went up to compete in the open weight class.
     
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  8. Banana-Rama

    Banana-Rama Active Member Full Member

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    Yeah and he was cutting a ridiculous amount of weight to do it, I won't speculate on how he was managing to do it.....

    Why do you refuse to believe your own eyes when you see Crawford the same size as Canelo in the ring, and refuse to believe your own ears when his trainer tells you that he should have already been at 168 years ago....
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2025 at 10:04 AM
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, it's a good feat and he's built a good resume too. But Bud's achievement is unique. It's a new frontier. I'm not even 100% convinced Usyk has overhauled Holyfield yet.

    I'm not going to argue with people who think it's Usyk though, up to yourself, I'd now have the Ukrainian third though (I did have him first for a stretch).
     
  10. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    Didn't you previously say that Fury was an unwinnable fight for Usyk?

    Oleksandyr Usyk will demolish bellew then clean out HW starting with AJ | Page 4 | Boxing News 24 Fan Forum

    Thing is, I agreed with you. I did not think it was possible for Usyk to beat Fury. I thought Usyk stood no chance.

    Usyk went into the open class. No handicap and took on the giant.
     
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  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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  12. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Crawford has fought 41 of his 42 fights in his backyard/country on a deck heavily stacked in favour or at worst on a level one

    The one time he travelled to his opponent's backyard, his first world title fight vs Burns, they wanted to award him a Medal of Honor

    In that fight the ref was from the US and all the judge's came from neutral countries


    All Crawford's other world title fights vs foreigners all of which were obviously in thev US


    Gamboa - US ref and 3 US judges

    Beltran - US ref and 3 US judges

    Jean - US ref and 3 US judges

    Diaz - US ref and 3 US judges

    Postol - US ref and 2 US judges, 1 neutral. Postol was also a fellow reigning champ

    Indongo - US ref and 2 US judges, 1 neutral. Indongo was also a fellow reigning champ

    Horn - US ref, 1 US judge, 1 Australian , 1 neutral. Horn was the champ, Crawford challenger

    Brook - US ref and 2 US judges, 1 neutral

    Khan - US ref and 2 US judges, 1 neutral

    Egis - US ref and 3 US judges

    Avanesyan - US ref and 3 US judges

    Madrimov - US ref and 2 US judges, one neutral. Madrimov was the champ, Crawford challenger

    Clenelo - US ref and 3 US judges. Clenelo was the champ, Crawford challenger



    Conversely, in all of Usyk's world title fights and fights since moving up to the world level in his 10th fight he has has a combined 2 home judges and 0 home refs in 15 fights

    Crawford has had 32 home judges and US refs for all of his world title fights vs foreigners in 20 fights and never had a single judge from his foreign opponent's country

    Remember during one of the pre-fight presser's Madrimov's promoter was criticized by some American media members and by many in the comments on YT for simply pleading for a fair shake from the judges which 2 of which were from the US and one from a neutral country.

    Madrimov was the champ not Crawford and he was brining his belt for Crawford to win in his own country and Crawford would never have fought him in his country with a home ref and 2 home judges and no US judge. US fighters never have to fight on a deck stacked against them like that in world title fights and fighters from former Soviet states are robbed so often in the US they really shouldn't ever fight over there because they're just not going to be given a fair shake 9 times out of 10 vs US fighters

    Usyk has neve had home advantage in any fight at the world level sans arguably Dubois I in Poland and he won and unified all his world titles in his opponent's backyards sans one which was still on the road

    Crawford won and unified all his sans one in his backyard/country

    Even when he was the challenger and his opponent was the champ he had home advantage sans once


    Indongo had to bring his belts to him
    Horn had to bring his belt to him
    Madrimov brought his belt to him
    Clenelo brought his belt to him

    He's never once brought a belt to his opponent's backyard or country or defended his world title in his opponent's country or on neutral soil

    It's like a complete inversion of what Usyk has done

    They both won their first world titles in their opponent's backyards, then after doing so Crawford has fought at home ever since just like he did pre-winning a title

    Usyk has fought

    Glowacki in Poland
    Hunter in the US
    Huck in Germany
    Briedis in Latvia
    Gassiev in Russia
    Bellew in England
    Chisora in England
    Witherspoon in the US
    AJ in England
    Dubois in England

    AJ in Saudi
    Belly in Saudi
    Belly in Saudi
    Mchunu in the US

    Dubois in Poland

    Dubois in Poland = every world title fight of Crawford's in the US sans Burn and it wasn't even actually in Usyk's home country. So slightly under half of Crawford's career and virtually all of his opponents since moving up to the world level


    Ask yourself why so many American fans make such a huge deal about American fighters using their passport once in their entire careers to fight in their opponent's backyard, and it's usually with neutral officials whenever they do for world title fights and never with their opponent's having 3 or 4 officials when they do. As said, it's Medal of Honor time

    Now lets factor in size

    You get laughing tears emoji posting clowns armed with the rebuttal that Crawford has come up from 135, 33lbs in weight, and Usyk has only come up from CW

    Well, for starter, unlike Crawford who has very often been the much or bigger man when he's moved up in weight, rarely smaller or if so only by a few pounds, and extremely rarely if ever much or way smaller even when fighting in the 6th weight class he started out from, or at worst has been roughly the same size as his opponents, Usyk has routinely actually been fighting way bigger men up at HW, in their backyards or on the road, who are much heavier or who have an obscene weight advantage over him, and with much longer reaches in Belly and AJ's case

    But in addition to that, duh, Crawford turned pro at 20 y/o weighing 137

    Usyk turned pro when he was almost 27 and he was campaigning at MW in the amateurs, 165 in the ams, with same day weigh ins, at 20. Usyk moved up to LHW that year with same day weigh ins so if we start there and he turned pro then he would've done so at SMW with same day weigh ins rehydrating less/much less than Crawford was doing at 135

    So that's from SMW to HW whilst fighting guys at HW who are way bigger and heavier than him ranging from 13 to 55lbs heavier than him and 4-7 inches in reach advantages for AJ and Belly and all bar one were taller or much taller than him in addition to being much/way heavier or much/way heavier with much or way longer reaches


    Usyk has never been a weight bully, Crawford was one for a long time

    This is Crawford on the scales weighing in at 167.5lbs for a fight in the 6th division he started out from, whilst looking as lean as a greyhound who hasn't eaten for days

    Career 160 GGG's very consistent fight night weight was 170 for goodness sake

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    Crawford weighed more for his 154 debut in his 4th weight class in the ring than his career 154 opponent did. He was a pound and a bit heavier than Madrimov with a way longer reach

    He has never been undersized at any weight class he fought at and he wasn't vs Clenelo

    He looked very noticeably bigger at the ceremonial weigh in than he did in the video I posted of the real weigh in so he had clearly rehydrated quite a lot of weight in the 8 hours or however long it was between the real weigh in and ceremonial one

    I estimated he would come in about 175 but I think he may well have come in closer to 180 if not 180 by fight time.

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    Clenelo says he comes in at 178-180 on fight night but even if he was heavier than Crawford it wouldn't have been by much and as I said beforehand Crawford's big reach advantage would be hugely advantageous for him as often having a huge one or just always having the advantage in that department always has been for him.

    He was able to hit Clenelo from a range Clenelo had to cover ground to land with his shots and Clenelo has cement feet and Crawford could see those big hooks coming and step back and block them or just block them or just move back or to the side because he was already outside of Clenelo's range

    Crawford ''This is the first fight I don't have to cut MUSCLE''

    Bomac

    “Man, listen, he (Crawford) should’ve been at 168 a long time ago,” McIntyre told The Ring. “But I was making him take advantage of ‘35, ‘40, ‘47.”
     
  13. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Now let's get on to punchers fought

    Usyk has run a gauntlet of murderous punching KO artists and legit bangers, not only his size but also much or way bigger, all of whom in their backyards or on the road, many of the hardest punchers in the sports, some of whom among the hardest P4P

    AJ, Dubois, Gassiev, Briedis, Belly, Chisora, Bellew, GlowackI, Huck, and Hunter are all either murderous punchers or legit bangers. Even late notice D level sub Witherspoon is a big puncher

    If you doubt Belly is a big puncher you're wrong. He can crack when he wants to and obviously power is magnified when you're facing someone you're much or way bigger than you as has been the case with everyone Usyk has fought at HW

    And none of them were on a 4 year KO drought they had been winning via KO or stoppage in most if not all their recent fights

    AJ had only been taken the distance twice going into Uysk I

    Dubois only once
    Kronk Belly was had stopped 4 of his previous 5
    Chisora had registered some of his best KOs in recent years

    And even Witherspoon had stopped all bar 1 of his victims in recent years albeit at the lower level and he has been the only lower level opponent Usyk has fought since his 9th fight


    Crawford has barely fought any KO artists or legit bangers, especially ones his size, let alone ones much or way bigger than him and on one of the few occasions he has he got dropped by Mean Machine

    Clenelo might have been at 168 for years but by the same token it's been years since he got anyone out of there, 4 years, despite having been cherrypicking like crazy for years and a bunch of those cherrypicks have subsequently been KO'd or stopped by fighters like Sheeraz who was making his 168 debut, complete featherfist Surace, padded record Mung. Scull was badly hurt and close to being stopped by a jab vs Shishkin
     
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  14. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    And if we factor in overall accomplishments amateur and pro it gets even more impressive for Usyk

    Olympic gold
    World Amateur gold
    European gold
    Going undefeated in the WSB at SHW vs giants way bigger than him, ranging from 15-67lbs heavier

    335-15

    vs

    58-12
     
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  15. covetousjuice

    covetousjuice Putin did nothing wrong

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    I don't like Usyk and I definitely like Crawford more than Usyk.

    That said, yeah, Usyk is still obviously P4P #1.

    Canelo seems to have lost a few steps and Crawford's win was less dominant than Usyk's. I also give more credit to Usyk as he did several rematches against his big wins, largely putting to rest any claims his wins were luck or flukes -- he's simply better.

    Crawford was very impressive, but not P4P #1
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2025 at 10:11 AM
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