Reality Check Time! Oleksandr Usyk is Still The P4P Number One Fighter On The Planet. This Is Why...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Sep 15, 2025 at 10:37 PM.


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  1. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    There's a world of difference between massive weight bully multi-weight champs moving up in weight and still being much or bigger than their opponents (career opponents at that weight) when they do so or roughly the same size as their opponents even in their 4th, 5th and 6th weight class they started out at and never facing someone much or way bigger even when moving that many weight classes up

    And multi-weight champs who are routinely facing bigger, much or way bigger opponents when they do so where they are giving away huge physical advantages

    There's also a massive difference between fighting 41 of your 42 fights at home, with home country refs for all your fights and 3 or 2 home judges for all your world title fights vs foreigners and only ever 1 from your opponent's country (as in only one time in one fight) and every foreign champ you've fought sans 1 has had to fight you in your country, or bring the belt to your country even when you were the beltless challenger, and never defending your belts once in your opponent's backyard/country once in 42 fights

    And never having home advantage in any of your world title fights or fights at the world level sans arguably once which wasn't actually even in your home country, whilst winning and unifying all your world titles in your opponent's backyards sans one which was still on the road defending your belts in your opponent's country many times, and having a whopping combined 2 home refs in all those fights and 0 home refs

    There's also a massive difference running a gauntlet of savage punchers and legit bangers not only your size but much or way bigger than you, in their backyards or countries on a deck stacked heavily against you or against you, or on the road. Usyk is literally routinely crossing a minefield fraught with danger when he fights where one tiny mistake can result in his head getting knocked off by a huge bomb. Crawford is crossing one which is mostly full of dummy mines

    Crawford is an exceptional fighter but one of these things is obviously much more impressive, risky and difficult to do

    Six divisions from the one he started out at looking like a greyhound who hasn't eaten in a week on the scales, 33lbs higher than the one he started out at :facepalm:

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    Serge, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:00 PM
    Serge, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:00 PM
    #136
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  2. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    CST80, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:00 PM
    CST80, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:00 PM
    #137
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  3. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You think Crawford was getting taken to school by Porter. Absolute nonesense. It was just close until the stoppage, but Porter wasn't 39 like Povetkin who many had ahead until the stoppage

    Canelo is far better than aj end of. Canelo achieved more, is more skilled than aj objectively and trashed numerous bigger guys including Kovalev and Callum Smith, so much for size huh ? Kovalev was no more washed than the likes of Povetkin and Pulev and unlike them Kovalev was actually a champion. Everyone thought Kovalev beat Ward and got cheated in their second fight.

    Fury got beat up by an mma fighter and cherrypicked way more than Canelo, and old ass contenders from the Klitschko era remained in the top 10 for quite some time. if any division is a joke it's the heavyweights.
     
    MarkusFlorez99, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:01 PM
    MarkusFlorez99, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:01 PM
    #138
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  4. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ruiz’s claim to fame was beating the unified no.1 heavyweight. Yes it was

    #Cheerseveryone
     
    Webbiano, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:01 PM
    Webbiano, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:01 PM
    #139
    Serge likes this.
  5. TNSNO1878

    TNSNO1878 Active Member Full Member

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    Using this same argument, though, would you say David Haye moving up from cruiserweight to beat Nikolai Valuev and giving away seven stone was better than Crawford beating Canelo? Weight differences can become more insignificant at HW because there's no ceiling. Usyk is definitely not a small HW either and is infinitely more skilled than Fury anyway.

    I don't think Fury was ever that good. He was dropped heavily by Steve Cunningham, lost at the British level to John McDermott and got a gift W. In the fight prior to Usyk 1, he got dropped and taken to the wire by a guy who had never boxed professionally before. I think a lot of this offsets the weight disparity because Fury was never as good as some people made out; he'd also been snorting coke and downing pints of ale for years, too, which meant the 2015 version and the one that fought Usyk were not the same fighter.

    If we're going to say Canelo was over the hill, then AJ and Fury were also over the hill when Usyk beat them. I don't think it's fair to chastise Crawford's wins and pretend Usyk went through all of these fighters when they were at their peak.
     
    TNSNO1878, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:07 PM
    TNSNO1878, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:07 PM
    #140
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  6. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    So... you're telling back to me what I said to you?:lol: Yeah, Heavyweight in amateur boxing is 200 pounds, Cruiserweight is 200 pounds. While Super Heavyweight and Heavyweight are unlimited.

    Well, you just said when was Usyk's natural weight been just 200? Well when was Crawford's natural weight ever just, 135, 140, 147 or 154? Crawford at 135 was rehydrating to 153, at 140 he was rehydrating to 157 and at 154 he was rehydrating to 169.
     
    CST80, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:09 PM
    CST80, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:09 PM
    #141
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  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    AJ also lost to Ruiz, and Ruiz was only top 3 because of that win. Ryder and Mungia were also top 5. So that's 5-6 wins over top 5 opp for Canelo and no losses until Crawford. Joshua gets 4 wins over top 5 only if you include Ruiz, who only was ranked so high because he beat AJ.
     
    Bokaj, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:15 PM
    Bokaj, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:15 PM
    #142
  8. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Na we need to put some respect on Fury’s name, bro fought McDermott in his 7th fight maybe? He should have lost, but dominated him in the second bout.

    Also Fury has always rose to the big occasion, he has some lacklustre performances, but they’re all winning performances.

    I will say the Ngannou is the anomaly, but he also gave the best pfp fighter 2 very good fights at the later stages of his career.

    The same fighter that destroyed the Cruiserweight division.

    The same fighter that bested Joshua 2 times, 1 comfortably and 1 competitively

    Fury also comfortably beat the best heavyweight of the generation in Wlad.

    Let’s not try and rewrite history here
     
    Webbiano, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:18 PM
    Webbiano, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:18 PM
    #143
  9. DirtyDan

    DirtyDan Worst Poster of 2015 Full Member

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    No, I'm telling you weight doesn't matter at Heavyweight. You're not automatically going to get better because you outweigh your opponent by a couple of pounds at Heavyweight. It's all about stylistic advantages and being fatter than your opponent doesn't give you an advantage.

    I'm saying Usyks natural weight class is heavyweight which is true, he's been fighting Heavyweights pretty much his whole career. Crawford only had 1 fight above 154 before fighting Canelo. I'm not really interested in what fighters walk around or rehydrate to, if we do that then we have to restructure every weight class in combat sports since they're all doing it, rehydrating and walking above their natural weight .
     
    DirtyDan, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:20 PM
    DirtyDan, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:20 PM
    #144
  10. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    But the difference is is that Ryder and Munguia were never close to being unified champs in their division. LIKE NO WHERE NEAR DUDE.
     
    Webbiano, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:20 PM
    Webbiano, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:20 PM
    #145
  11. kdyehs

    kdyehs Active Member Full Member

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    I don't know if I have to explain the obvious, but here, he says "candidate". He doesn't say Usyk actually is P4P number 1. lol
     
    kdyehs, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:21 PM
    kdyehs, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:21 PM
    #146
  12. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    We already established that weight did matter considering Uysk was the first guy for 25 years to do it after holyfield
     
    Webbiano, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:21 PM
    Webbiano, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:21 PM
    #147
  13. DirtyDan

    DirtyDan Worst Poster of 2015 Full Member

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    Omg, look at the size disparity doe. I gotta give him extra credit. :nono:
     
    DirtyDan, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:23 PM
    DirtyDan, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:23 PM
    #148
  14. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    How did Haye perform against the best heavyweight of the generation though? He got maybe a round, no more than that.
     
    Webbiano, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:25 PM
    Webbiano, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:25 PM
    #149
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  15. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Any reasonable scorer had Porter well up. If you think otherwise, it merely showcases what an unreasonable headcase you really are. No, Porter wasn't 39, but he retired directly afterward, which tells one all they need to know. His body had had enough. Heavyweights age differently that's long been a canard for a reason.

    Of course Canelo on the surface seems far better than AJ and will be ranked ahead of him in all time P4P ratings. But this CURRENT VERSION, is NOT better than the version of AJ that Usyk fought. What exactly is wrong with your reading comprehension? As far as Fury goes, that motehr****er has always been mercurial, yes... some fighters fight to the level of their opposition. So there's a reason why he manages to look great against his toughest opponents and subpar against his subpar opponents, because he's a lazy ****. Clearly he upped his level against Usyk, that was clear for all to see, except for the people who willingly blind themselves to reality, like you. Kovalev is in dire shape, coming off of being stopped by Ward, Eleider Alvarez, almost stopped by Yarde, and went on to be beaten senseless by Robin Sirwan Safar, a guy I'd never ****ing heard of before the match was announced. That's alongside all of the personal problems he was having with the law, his drinking problems, the rehydration limit and he abbreviated camp. So now you're just being a bad actor and intellectually dishonest. The Povetkin that AJ beat went on to go to war with Hunter, beat Hughie and Whyte, who showed no wear and tear beforehand. The version Canelo fought of Kovalev is comparable to the Covid ravaged Povetkin that Whyte fought in the rematch. Yet Kovalev still managed to outbox Canelo for every second of their fight until the stoppage. So this actually does more harm to your cause than good.:lol: Callum Smith looked like had full blown AIDS at the weigh in. But... nice story!
     
    CST80, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:25 PM
    CST80, Sep 16, 2025 at 2:25 PM
    #150
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