The 1880's!

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mattdonnellon, Aug 23, 2025.


  1. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The thing about US scenes is they were divided by region. The "Lakers" were the dominant sect. They started out in Minnesota and then migrated to California.
     
  2. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Finally a look at the black heavyweights of the decade. Jackson was 100% the best and he proved it by defeating his only serious alternative, George Godfrey.
    We shall run the rule over the next black contenders, like their later colleagues they had a lot of series of contest among themselves, out of necessity as rarely did they get fights with top white fighters, Jackson and Godfrey been the exceptions. At least in the 1890's Choynski and Maher fought across the color line, giving us a better gauge of the relative abilities. Wilson fought on pretty even terms with Lannon and Cardiff and CC Smith had some success with the likes of Gabig and Taylor.
    Billy Wilson. 5-11. 180 pounds. beat Hadley, Woodson, Sheedy, F.Taylor and Jack Fallon, drew with Lannon and Mchenry Johnson and gave Cardiff two hard goes and got sparked by Choynski.
    McHenry Johnson 6-1. 170 pounds. An in-and-out fighter who beat Woodson and F.Taylor and drew with Godfrey, Wilson, Lange and Hinch and also lost to Hinch. he was well beaten by Godfrey in a coloured heavyweight title fight. His contest in 1886 for the "World" coloured heavyweight title with Wilson ended in a very even ten round draw so he was no slough.
    Mervine Thompson 5-11 235 pounds. Flattered to deceive by defeating C C Smith and Jack Stewart but in 1885 Hadley and Wilson clearly bested him to show his true level. A win by disqualification over Killen was a robbery and he soon fell back into obscurity.
    Professor Charles Hadley. 5-9 175 pounds. The top man at the turn of the decade as his fight with Godfrey proved before the latter finally claimed the spoils. He was still a factor in 1885 when he beat Thompson and was holding his own in fights with Smith and Woodson but Wilson had his number. At his best as good as most of the early black fighters.
    C C Smith 5-11 3/4. 180 pounds. Strange record with losses to Stewart and Thompson but wins over S.Taylor. Gagib, Craig, Thompson, Hadley, Donaldson, Queenan and many more. He gave Maher fits in one of their contests and was decent against Dunkhorst in 1898. I often wondered if his record is an amalgamation of two different fighters?
    Morris Grant, Frank Taylor and Charles Woodson make up the top ten black heavy of the decade,
    George Godfrey 5-10 1/2 175 pounds. His rating was questioned by some but in hindsight he was very, very good,coming to boxing late in life and overcoming Hadley in a series to prove he was the top black dog on the East coast. Lots of spars with Kilrain, at least one unrecorded and a 3 round loss to Jake cannot be substantiated, seems to have been a police stoppage. He was avoided by all the the top white fighters, including Sullivan but proved superior to Lannon in their "draw" and outclassed McHenry Johnson. After a gallant, losing effort against Jackson when 35 years old he went on a run, beating Lannon, ("draw") Wannop, Ashton, Cardiff and Denver Ed Smith before Kilrain won a 44 round battle against the now 38 year old. Even later he beat Lannon, C C Smith, Billy Woods, Nick Burley and drew with a peak Steve O'Donnell. Only top contenders Choynski and Maher beat the aging star. I think the avoided 1883-1888 version was probably better than Burke, Mitchell, McCaffrey etc.
    Jackson
    Godfrey
    Wilson
    McHenry Johnson
    Hadley
    Smith
    Thompson
    Woodson
    Taylor
    Grant.
     
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  3. SimonLock

    SimonLock Member Full Member

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    @mattdonnellon Have you seen any evidence to verify the Morris Grant win over Hadley on 20th June 1882, or the 1878 police gazette tournament win for Grant? CBZ lists them both but I’ve been unable to verify either.
     
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  4. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There was no 1878 police gazette tournament.

    1882-02-11 The National Police Gazette (page 14)
    The first competition for the Police Gazette Medal and the colored heavy-weight boxing championship of America was decided at Harry Hill's theatre on Thursday afternoon, Jan. 26. The medal was offered for competition by Richard K. Fox, proprietor of the Police Gazette, to promote the art of self-defence among the colored race and only colored heavy-weight pugilists are eligible to box for the trophy. The following are the rules:
    ...
     
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  5. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'll have a look later. Grant was little more than a big town bully as far as I recall.
     
  6. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Grant looked so bad the NPG writer described him thus:

    "The first couple to appear for the medal was Morris Grant and Charley Fletcher, the first named an old man over sixty years of age, the other a young fellow about twenty-five."

    2nd stage of the tournament was reported in 1882-04-22 The National Police Gazette (page 14)
    3rd - 1882-05-20 The National Police Gazette (page 14)
    4th - 1882-07-22 The National Police Gazette (page 14)
    5th and final - 1882-12-23 The National Police Gazette (page 14)
     
  7. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    WE have seen many a battle fought in the roped arena between champions of the past and present, but never in our time witnessed such an exciting affair as the fifth battle for the POLICE GAZETTE medal, representing the colored heavy weight boxing championship of America. The trophy was offered some time ago by Richard K. Fox, of the POLICE GAZETTE, in order to promote boxing among the colored athletes. Morris Grant carried off the prize at the first contest, Charles Hadley of Bridgeport won it at the second meeting and at the third again by default. At the fourth contest Morris Grant, the New York champion, again captured the trophy, defeating Viro Small, better known as Black Sam. At the time Mr, Fox offered the medal he decided that it should finally be awarded the winner of three competitions. It was well known that Hadley and Grant would struggle hard to win. Over 800 persons filled Hill’s noted sporting resort to witness the contest. Wm. E. Harding had the management of the affair, Frank Whittaker was master of ceremonies and Harry Hill was referee. Larry McCarthy was selected as Hadley’s umpire and the renowned Prof. Wm. Clark was selected as Grant’s umpire. Pop Whittaker read the conditions of the contest, setting forth that the men should box according to the Marquis of Queensbury rules, three minutes for each round, wit one minute rest between each round and the winner to have undisputed possession oft he medal. A light-weight colored pugilist, George Cooley, volunteered to act as Grant’s second. Jack Benton seconded Hadley. Grant is the New York champion and his admirers were confident he would win. Hadley is the champion of Connecticut and he was trained for the battle by Ed. McGlinchey of Bridgeport. After a first-class variety show and boxing bouts Hadley; with the Bridgeport delegation, arrived and stripped tor the contest. As soon as time was called the rival colored champions rushed at each other and fought like demons. Hadley rushed at his man, hitting right and left and driving Grant all over the stage, pounding and thumping him with no intervals, until Grant fell all in a heap on the floor. In the second round Hadley knocked Grant off the stage behind the scenes. When he came on again Hadley knocked him down twice in quick succession. Finally be sent in a right-hand cross counter straight from the shoulder, which landed under Grant’s chin, lifted him clean off the floor and knocked him completely out. Grant was assisted to get up and was set on a chair. The partisans of the men were making a great noise. As the time was not yet up Hadley’s friends shouted, “Give it to him! Hadley ran across the stage to hit Grant but Grant had evidently had enough and catching hold of the chair tell over with it on the floor and could not fight any longer. Harry Hill then decided that Hadley had won. Then the colored boxer, Charley Cooley, mounted the stage and cried : “I can lick any 130Ib. ****** in the world for $500 !’ Cooley had been very busy giving Grant advice and Hadley, who was still on the stage, stepped up to him and knocked him down, Coo ley unwarily got up; Hadley Knocked him down again. There was a row. The police mounted :he stage and intense excitement prevailed. The referee, umpires, police officers and others rushed in to stop what promised to be a general fight and some one in the audience banded Cooley a revolver. As soon as it became known that Cooley was thus armed the excitement was increased. ‘Take it away from him!” shouted many in the audience. A police officer not in uniform sprang to the stage and snatched the revolver from Cooley’s hand. Hadley amid tremendous cheers was then presented with the trophy and the affair ended. After the battle the rival pugilists met in a Bleecker street sporting house and fought one other round, which was not decided, as the affair ended in a free fight, in which razors, glasses, and pistols were flourished but no one was seriously injured. 1Morris Grant says he can whip Hadley and there is every indication that the rivals may meet with bare knuckles."
    Police Gazette, December 23, 1892.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2025
  8. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Senya has answered one half of the question re the Police Gazette medal, perhaps somebody erroneously counted backwards from the fifth 1882 tournament to1878 thinking they were an annual event?
    I'm pretty sure the Grant win over Hadley didn't happen, I can find no mention of it.
     
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  9. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1. Sullivan
    2. Jackson
    3. Kilrain
    4. Burke
    5. Mitchell
    6. Mccaffrey
    7. Godfrey
    8. Cardiff
    9. Killen
    10. Slavin
    11. Cleary
    12. Mcauliffe
    13. Goddard
    14. Ed Smith
    15. Greenfield
    16. Nolan
    17. Farnan
    18. Laing
    19. B.Wilson
    20. Miller
    21. Lees
    22. Jem Smith
    23. Mchenry Johnson
    24. CC Smith
    25. Ashton
    26. Fryer
    27. Lannon
    28. Clow
    29. Dooley
    30. Dalton
    31. Hadley
    32. Herald
    33. Bradbury
    34. Conley
    35. Glover
    36. Lambert
    37. Fallon
    38. Fell
    39. Hinch
    40. Foley
    41. Newton
    42. Ryan
    43. Donaldson
    44. McDonald
    45. Thompson
    46. Woodson
    47. O.Sullivan
    48. Corbett
    49. Choynski
    50. Elliott
    This list omits fighters like Matthews, Gabig, Rooke, Jack Davis, Chandler, St Joe Kid, Spencer, Goode, Daly, Langtry, Kelleher, Boden, Jack King, Costello and many more.
    The purpose of this thread is to show that while the 1880’s has its difficulties, incomplete records, bad record-keeping, false claims, and other issues, it had a depth of gloved boxing and boxers similar to later decades. Most important fights are documented and on top of these records, these fighters regularly appeared in a four round exhibitions, in England, Australia and USA where boxing was booming. Furthermore, the top boxers from this decade were not blown away by the next wave of contenders any more than other periods were. Most top fighters fought each other with the black boxers frozen out quite a bit-sound familiar? Bare knuckle fights were dying out in America and Australia, only England still held on to its champions been LPR fighters in the main. Of the top of my head, Ryan-Goss, Sullivan v Ryan, Mitchell and Kilrain, Kilrain-Smith, Smith-Greenfield, Mitchell-Burke were the chief bare-knuckle contests of the decade.
    I will post my revised year-end ratings later and get back to getting the second volume of my “Irish Heavyweight Boxers” book ready for publication. The fun is over!
     
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  10. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1878 NPG had had very poor sports coverage, only with occasional boxing write-ups. Fox didn't have a sporting editor on his staff yet. To think that he organized a tournament for black fighters is extremely unlikely.
     
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