Do you consider Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua to be all time greats ?

Yeah, he was 17 months younger. But still he was 39 and 3 years out of his prime, unmotivated and his wife going crazy.

 

Absolutely not. Neither had any longevity at the top even in a mediocre era. AJ has No Chin and one of the lowest Ring IQ’s for a champion I can remember. Fury is a feather fisted mentally unstable fighter who once he got to the top couldn’t handle it. Say what you want about fighters like Holmes and Klitschko’s eras but they were able to bring it for years on end and not have the lapses that AJ and Fury did. It’s not easy to do that even in weak or mediocre eras to be able to get up and win every fight. Fury and AJ couldn’t do that.

 

Wlad was either the most motivated he'd ever been or at least since the Haye fight:

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/wlad-was-dying-for-a-rematch-with-fury.696499/#post-22075784

If it had been a razor close 7-5 or whatever there'd be a strong case that a younger Wlad wins. But he was out of his depth for 11.5 rounds.

Joshua and Wilder's teams weren't even thinking about fighting Wlad in 2015, which says a lot in itself.

 

You'd rather get punched by prime Holmes than prime Fury if you have any sense.

 

Well, AJ wasn't even a Top 10 guy when Klitschko was the champ. He was 2 years into his pro career and only had 14 fights. He still fought him being 3.5 years pro in his 19th fight. It took Fury 7 years and 25 fights to challenge Wlad. Wilder ducking Klitschko is a stuff of legends tho. 8 year pro, WBC titlist, 33 fights under his belt, but still "a baby", lol.

 

Fury is feather fisted. He has no actual power especially for his size.

 

Yeah, for the rematch, not the original fight. He carried this motivation into the AJ match.

 

Fury only.

 

I dont even consider Usyk an all time great, so how do you think Fury And AJ are rated to me?

 

I don't have any of them in the Top 20.

 

Short answer, no.
Long answer, are they arguably between the top 20-30 heavyweights, yes, if that's how far you're willing to grant ATG status, considering the age of the division. Unlike Usyk, these aren't guys I'm ever going to rate p4p anywhere of note. But you have to consider that Usyk himself thinks he's better than Vitali but not Fury and AJ. So, that should change everyone's lists, frankly.

 

Fury I would probably give the nod if I thought about it long enough. With Joshua I just can't get over the thought of him doing some stupid every day thing like dropping his car keys and somebody yelling "brilliant, AJ!" in response. Blame UK fight media.

 

Really depends on the criteria. I think they are ATGs within the UK, but on a global level it depends if we are judging them purely on ability and resume or also factoring in star power. I dont think either were anything exceptional as fighters but they were, alongside Canelo, the biggest stars in boxing for much of the last 10 years.

 

Everything I wrote applies to the first fight.

Wlad had much more success against Joshua because Joshua is far easier to hit. Ruiz and Dubois can attest to that. But Wlad bottled it.

 

Nope, you provided the quote about the Fury rematch. Wlad wasn't motivated for the first fight. But it doesn't matter anyway.

Well, considering Fury has been getting dropped all over the place, including by Pajkić, Cunningham and Ngannou, I wouldn't boast about being easy to hit, lol.