Why is Vitali a favorite over his more accomplished brother Wladimir h2h

Mercer did better than Vitali at least that should be talked about more but on this sub Lewis Mercer is fairly well respected at the least.

 

I always thought Vitali was better than Wlad h2h. He was mentally tougher too.

 

You're saying 240s was lewis's prime weight, so what is lewis' prime years then according to you... a spectator?

Because Lewis fought Mike Tyson literally the year before Vitali, and when asked about that bout... Lewis said "i peaked late in my career when I fought Tyson; and Tyson peaked early which is not my (lewis') problem"

So lewis still felt he was in his peak and you're trying to say something different...

And btw.. 256 is not a bad weight at all for lennox he is a big framed 6 foot 5 man. He was his heaviest but so what? he wasnt overweight. You could argue 240 was underweight. Just more exaggeration in my opinion and more discrediting of vitali's performance. Did vitali quit? No. Was he out on his feet? No. He was objecting hard and ready for next round.

Cuts can happen to anyone, but you're making it out like Lewis engineered a mission to cut his opponent... someone he was losing to on all score cards and a bout where lewis was getting tagged badly a lot... its not like he was fighing someone levels below him to work on inducing a cut with such precision. Thats not how it works. Try causing a cut when a heavweight like vitali is trying to take your head off... good luck.

Lewis didn't want the rematch too.. why is that?? if it was such an easy lovely walk in the park for lewis like you make it out to be.... he could have got more money. Its not like lewis doesnt like making money, he is always offering to get back in the ring if the money is right. So where was Lewis??? Would have been easy money the way you portray it to be.

lets not exaggerate! Wlad would have got KOd

 

Lewis looked his most coordinated and fluid in the 240s, i do think he was past it. Vitali would give any version of Lewis trouble no doubt. He's got certain traits over Wlad

 

I disagree; no doubt with age you lose speed and reflexes, but Lewis has always had a lazy walkround the ring style, he wasn't exactly muhammed ali fluid.

Anyways, as a messenger, Lewis himself said he peaked late. He said that after the Mike Tyson Bout.

 

That Lewis was lethargic. He looked similar vs Tyson but Tyson was shot and couldn't do anything. You don't actually Lewis was in peak condition do you ? I can't see it, everything visually indicates he wasn't. All humans reflexes will noticeably decline by the late 30s it's just biology, and Lewis was a career heaviest and his best performances were in the 240s. Lewis may have been stronger but he was slower, I have a hard time seeing any heavyweight peak in their late 30s. Lewis probably meant his mid 30s. Usyk is still performing well but anyone can see he's past it

 

It's quite simple Lewis on average weighed 240s pounds in his prime which is when he joined Emanuel Steward.

256 pounds was a career high weight for Lewis and the next highest recorded weight for Lewis was 253 pounds when he got KO'ed and looked sluggish vs Rahman in their 1st fight. Which tells us Lewis didn't perform at his best at 250+ pounds and that a good weight for him was 240s pounds. Which is what his average weight was when he joined Emanuel Steward as i said.

No boxer is at their peak being 2 months shy of 38 years old after having fought 18 world title fights come off it.

I'm the one exaggerating ? yet here you are dismissing Lewis's age trying to tell me a fighter nearing 38 year old is at their peak.

And then in another sentence you dismiss Lewis's weight by saying "he was at his heaviest so what"

So a fighter being at his career highest weight in which he looked sluggish has no barring on his performance ? is that what you're trying to tell me ? because to me you're showing a clear sign of bias which you're accusing me of and yet you're actually doing it yourself.

240s underweight ? what are you talking about ? on what planet is 240s pounds underweight ?

How many times do i have to keep explaining it ? Lewis's average weight when he joined Emanuel Steward which is considered his prime was 240s pounds. Which was obviously a good weight for him which is plainly obvious.

250+ pounds was not a good weight for Lewis as evident of his KO loss to Rahman and looking sluggish vs Vitali i don't see why you're having such a hard time comprehending this.

Yeah Vitali was ready to come out for the next round and thank god someone had some sense to stop the fight. As Vitali could've gone blind in one eye are we forgetting what Vitali's face looked like after ? and the fact he needed 60 stitches ?

This is the 2nd time that you're putting words into my mouth.

When have i said Lewis tried to deliberately cut Vitali ? i've never said that ?

I said Lewis was trying to damage Vitali like all boxers are to their opponents....and Lewis landed a legitimate punch so there's no luck involved if a cut is caused by a legitimate punch.

Yes Lewis was losing on the judges scorecards but there was only 6 rounds completed. How many fights have been turned around throughout history after 6 rounds when a fighter falls behind on points ?

Hell Lewis has done it a few times in his career when he went behind early in a few fights Holyfield 2, Mercer, Bruno, etc.

Because Lewis unlike alot of boxers realized he was getting on in age he's made his money his legacy is still in intact and he retired on top kudos to him.

If more boxers thought like Lewis they'd have much better health and they wouldn't ruin their legacy.

Again why are you putting words into my mouth ? when have i said Lewis would beat Vitali easy and that their fight was a walk in the park ? stop doing that it's the 3rd time you've done it now.

Wladimir hits alot harder than Vitali if he hit Lewis with half as many solid right hands as Vitali did then Lewis would be KO'ed.

Do i think a prime Lewis beats Wladimir ? yes.

But the out of shape Lewis in his late 30s ? i wouldn't bet on it.

 

I'm in the minority that don't think it's a given Vitali beats Wlad h2h.

 

This is the first time in 25 years that Ive heard from anyone that Lewis lost to Rahman because he was overweight. You know that's not the widely accepted opinion/analysis? That's a first. That 5-10 pounds on a large 6 foot 5 frame slowed him down enough to lose?

Don't shoot the messenger on this one, I said several times that those were Lewis's words not mine.

That's what lewis said, so you should direct that comment to lewis by email or at a fan convention.

On planet Earth??? Why is that so hard to believe?

You saying human beings who vary in height from 2 feet to 9 feet tall can't be underweight or overweight??
How do you even define overweight??? Is that when a BMI calculator tells you you're fat but you're just jacked instead????

240 on jacked big framed 6 foot 5 is not that much: If Only you knew....

Just as a challenge to prove how little you are informed on this matter... I could provide a photo pf a regular looking guy and tell you his height... and I guarantee you wouldn't have a clue in estimating his weight. I challenge you on this, to dispel the lack of knowledge on how people carry weight.

If you had said Lennox was overweight at 270 pounds you might have had an argument. But 253 pounds overweight?????? AJ has fought at that weight.. and won.

Funny how Usyk at same age didn't think that, he shut dubois up first time, more
convincingly than how you portray Vitalis loss against Lewis. Then came back for the rematch much longer after their first bout as compared to when vitali called out Lewis on rematch... and Usyk closed the show again.

Again just excuse making from you.

What you say applies to people like Roy Jones who relied solely on his athleticism and speed that disappears quite fast. Lennox never had that style.

 

Well i don't know what you've heard but Lewis was doing the Ocean's Eleven movie at the time. And it's "widely noted" his preparation/training wasn't the best aswell as not acclimatizing properly to the higher altitude in South Africa.

A few days before the fight Lewis fully clothed scaled 268 pounds and there was talks of Lewis not taking Rahman seriously and that there was a possibility of an upset.

Lewis looked sluggish vs Rahman, Lewis looked sluggish vs Vitali, so yes the weight did make a difference. And 250+ pounds didn't suit him as evident of Lewis's average weight in his prime always being in the 240s range as i keep saying.

Lennox Lewis, CBE, CM
@LennoxLewis

Let me clear this up for you. Vitali was ALWAYS supposed to be my last fight but it got moved up. I took it on 10 days notice. No champ has ever taken on a #1 contender on such short notice. I looked forward to moment of starting a family and no more camps. I seriously considered a rematch, but in the end, decided to go with the original plan. Vitali went on to be a great champion in his own right. I also knew that Father Time was not in MY corner.

Lewis's average prime weight was 240s pounds fact.

Was Lewis underweight at 240s like you're foolishly claiming ? no otherwise it wouldn't be his average weight in his prime in which he performed at his best why you can't comprehend this is baffling.

Was 250+ pounds historically a good weight for Lewis ? no as evident of his loss to Rahman and his performance vs Vitali in which Lewis looked sluggish in both fights again somehow you fail to comprehend this.

I think you're ill informed on this subject matter or you're deliberately being argumentative making a strawman argument to try give Vitali extra credit. And ignoring the fact that Lewis was at his career highest weight and being 2 months shy of 38 years old and trying to convince yourself that has no barring on Lewis's performance is quite frankly bizarre.

Usyk has had 24 professional fights overall and since moving up to Heavyweight in 2019 he's only fought 8 times in 6 years which means on average he's been fighting 1 fight per year.

Compare Lewis's last 6 years of his career he fought 14 times in 6 years and had 16 world titles and 44 professional fights overall. So Lewis had more wear and tear in his professional career.

Usyk already dominated Dubois in their 1st fight without losing a round and made him quit after a jab. So of course Usyk wouldn't have no problem facing Dubois again ? it's an easy fight for him ? so how in the world is Dubois comparable to Vitali ?

And how have i portrayed Lewis's fight against Vitali ? again you're putting words into my mouth that i've never said ?

All i've said is that Lewis caused a legitimate injury with a legitimate punch and there's no luck involved ? i've never said it wasn't a tough fight for Lewis ?

My issue is you're making out Lewis was at his peak vs Vitali and that Lewis's career highest weight has no barring on the fight which is nonsense.

So being in your late 30s and being at your highest recorded weight is an excuse ? no i'd say that's a very fact based post for me.

And all your doing is making weak strawman arguments and being biased to try and give Vitali more credit.

 

Not sure Vitali is the favorite judging by this thread.

Because Wlad was often getting pummelled by lesser guys until Steward taught him to throw a 1-2 and then lay on top of his generally much smaller opponent until the ref was able to pry them apart. That wouldn't even come close to working on Vitali.

Also, Vitali could hurt Wlad with a punch. Unlikely Wlad could hurt Vitali.

 

Wlad could fight tall, had a better jab, a far better right and left hook. Vitali had the better chin and seemed to have more grit. But I think Wlad would stop him. Vitali never ate something that came close to Wlads straight right or left hook.
I think, Wlad would win 6 outta 10.

 

I think Vitali’s movement, feints, and output would probably keep him ahead on points. He had the same qualities that Fury had to keep Wlad gunshy. Keep in mind that Haye also kept Wlad’s output very low when he at his peak.

 

Wlad was fairly busy against Haye IMO.