Is Sonny Liston the most well rounded heavyweight ever on film?

Also… if we mean “overall best” it’s possibly Roy Jones Jnr in an absolute sense of “skill” same as say Toney, Moore, Charles etc like all of those guys would style all over Liston if they were similar sized in a hysterically one sided fashion… @greynotsoold has said it before there’s a reason “big” and “dumb” sound so good together.

 

And yet men like Ray Arcel,Emanuel Steward and Angelo Dundee acclaimed Liston's technical skills.
Just saying....

 

Well for a start any man who achieves success in professional boxing doesn't lack heart,and that applies
to Sonny Liston.
What's wrong with Sonny using his physical advantages first ? That's just sound common sense.

 

Given that he was the victim of the most vicious, hostile press campaign since Jack Johnson, Sonny Liston
showed immense mental strength in keeping his act together.
The sheer hostility shown by the American media towards Sonny beggars belief.

 

He lacks heart relative to others in his sport not the man on the street… I didn’t say it wasn’t common sense, Liston is just very reliant on his physicality. uncommon fighters like Tunney are thinking fighters first, look at Louis big for his time but he developed a skill set that didn’t require this advantage the way Liston did, that’s why Louis clowns on every HW for skill besides Tyson.

 

He didn’t keep his act together.

He had numerous arrests for assaulting police officers, crawled in a bottle with a drinking problem, disgraced himself by giving up the heavyweight title on the stool (“oh my left shoulder is hurt” after a round where he threw the left hand overtime) and again in the rematch debacle. He associated with gangsters/mobsters instead of staying away from those types of people.

There’s literally video evidence of Liston getting friendly TV show appearances and whatnot. So I guess some didn’t get the “hostile press campaign” memo?

He wasn’t beloved. That’s on him for his own criminal actions — choices have consequences.

 

The cops were arresting Liston for just about any trivial offence.For crying out loud they even booked him
for driving too slow.On occassions Sonny assaulted cops for insulting him using racist terms.Perhaps that
was unwise of Sonny,but somehow I don't think that makes him a bad man.
As for giving up the title on the stool Sonny entered the ring with an injury that nowadays would cause boxers
to postpone the fight.
So according to you Liston should have stayed away from gangsters ? LOL ! How can you be so naive ? Do you
seriously think that Liston was the only boxer who HAD to associate with gangsters during that era ?
There are numerous testimonials from people who knew Sonny well that affirm he was a decent,caring
man behind the tough facade.There are even a few interviews on tv which show Sonny as a perfectly
friendly,normal individual.

 

Nobody would seriously deny that Joe Louis was a superior technician to Liston but for goodness sake stop trying to make Sonny look like some sort of clubfighter.
Heart is heart,whether or not it's less than that shown by a select band of other fighters.

 

Saintpat, I agree except average hand speed hardly ever was a problem, particularly with the jab. Any lack of speed was offset by tremendous timing -- against almost everyone except Clay. Patterson wasn't a particularly easy target but Sonny had. no trouble timing him. The jab set up the right uppercut and left hook to devastating effect.

 

We know that Sonny assaulted police officers. We know what he claims about the reasons and how he claims to being harassed — but is it harassment for police to keep an eye out for a guy known to assault officers, and who has beer cans and liquor bottles falling out of his car when he is pulled over … for driving drunk?

He was convicted of breaking a police officer’s knee and stealing his gun. He was convicted of impersonating a police officer. He was convicted of a lot of other stuff. I don’t care how many testimonials you find that say ‘well that time I was around him’ or ‘in certain situations’ he was a good-hearted man, he was also an outright thug in others. Two things can be true. Heck, some people had positive interactions with Charles Manson and thought he was a good guy … until he wasn’t.

The idea that poor Sonny never broke a law in his life and that policemen everywhere from the day he was born were stalking him for some reason and locking him up for no reason seems preposterous. I mean, do you really believe that?

As for quitting on his stool, have you watched the fight? Can you point to one thing that makes it seem like he was disabled in any way? He threw the left repeatedly in the round before he quit, so it was working then — maybe not optimally, but he wasn’t getting beat up and defenseless … how many times have we seen fighters keep trying to win with one hand or one arm or some other truly debilitating injury?

Giving up the greatest prize in sport (at the time) when you can stiil throw punches and you’re not getting the hell beaten out of you over the alleged injury you have rightly earned him his reputation for not having heart. Others have fought through worse, taken worse beatings … because they did have heart.

 

I don’t deny that he had a great jab, great reach and good timing with that punch. I do think he was slow of foot and if not slow of hand, at least not fast. We’re discussing him as being the most well-rounded heavyweight and I think he falls short in two key areas.

 

Haha. Sonny liked gangsters! They helped him get his first house and possibly the ones in Denver and Las Vegas, too.

 

This is very good.

 

"Most well-rounded" seems off as a description of him. "Most intimidating up to and maybe including Tyson" sounds better to my ear. That was the thing about Liston that set him apart more than anything else: His aura of menace.

 

S

Sonny liked gangsters ? I don't think he had much choice !