Usyk's Heavyweight Run is grossly overrated

His entire GOAT status is built off of Fury x2 , Joshua x2, Dubois x2.
What exactly is impressive about this at the point in time he fought them?

If Usyk fought Fury after he beat Wlad(Wlad was old though) it might have been something. But Usyk was doing other things at that time.

Fury by the time Usyk fought him had been a drug addict and him and Wilder had knocked eachother down like 9 times. We always go on about how Ali and Frazier beat the crap out of eachother. These guys are bigger and heavier than that, and Fury somehow is supposed to walk away from 3-4 knockdowns unscathed? One knockdown so severe it looked like he died? After this he nearly lost to a UFC fighter in his debut match. How exactly is Usyk beating this note worthy?

He beat AJ. Who beat up 41 year old Wlad nearly got himself knocked out. He beat Povetkin and Pulev at 39. He got knocked out and quit to Fat Andy Ruiz who didnt even have that impressive of a KO record at that point in time. I will give AJ credit for Parker though but aside from this, there was not much to his resume.

Dubois beat no one besides AJ who we knew was chinny (which props to AJ who desperately tried to get up)and before that beat no one. His biggest claim to fame is getting knocked out by Usyks jab,getting tired and quitting (which is fine,you gotta protect yourself).

What is impressive about this? What precisely is All time great Caliber about this?

People give Mike Tyson **** about beating a Larry Holmes who was old but fought competitively in the 2nd toughest era in boxing? Mike knocked out undefeated Michael Spinks, Spinks who was a Light heavy ,sure; But this same light heavy ended Larry's aspirations to beat Marcianos record handing him his first and second loss.

People **** all over Tysons resume, but then you look at Usyks and I go, what is special about this? Can someone tell me?

 

One thing I wanna note(not that it matters), I have not watch a single fight at Heavyweight I think, where he doesn't stop to complain to the referee about something

 

It's easy for people to discredit Fury and AJ due to a few bad performances but the reality is very few fighters are 100% switched on for every fight and heavyweight boxing is more dangerous than any other division. The truth is they would've held there own in any era their size alone would make them very difficult and when on their A game they are hard to beat.

Usyk beat them both as the away fighter and the underdog in the first fights. If you are not impressed by this then I really don't know what to say.

 

I should be impressed because he is the away fighter?

You do not give Spinks Credit for beating Ali after all the wars he was in, but you give Usyk credit for beating Fury who was damn near killed by Wilder in the first fight alone? He nearly lost to Ngannou.

AJs career is largely built off of old men besides Parker.

It just sounds like hyporisy.

 

I don't think I have ever mentioned Spinks on this forum so not sure where you are getting that information from lad?
The thing about boxing is that styles make fights and some guys can handle punishment better than others.
This is one of the things that makes Fury great IMO even Usyk damn near killed him in the 9th round of the first fight and he still kept fighting.
Say what you want about Fury but you can't teach that kind of heart.

 

I have to admit I thought Usyk was going to be beaten by chisora, then by aj. By fury I at least considered that he might be pretty good. Looking back on his heavyweight fights now he is just a beast, he has my respect.

 

In my opinion, he's definitely one of the most skilled fighters to ever do it and deserves a top 50 ranking in the all time P4P list. Now speaking strictly of his heavyweight run, I think fans put too much stock into him beating the fighters you mentioned twice. AJ and Fury rematches only happened due to bs rematch clauses even though neither did any better than how they did in the first fight. Fury came in heavier and performed absolutely worse off in the rematch. Dubois was never a threat as seen in the first fight, he j ascended to a vacant title with a mediocre run beating a washed up AJ, who he himself came off a cherry picked run of opponents, just to not show a pulse in the rematch.

People still parade this narrative that Usyk is a tiny man at heavyweight even though being mid 220's is in line with what you expect of a heavyweight champs as of recent. Cool, he overcame the difference against Fury, but to continue mentioning Usyk being tiny against AJ and Dubois is now just pushing it. It's normalized for guys to have 20lb weight advantage as due to the nature of the weight class, it stops getting impressive every time that fact is mentioned. Usyk shouldn't get additional credit for every opponent just because he's outweighed by that much every fight, it's normalized now and doesn't change the fact he was originally a heavyweight who cut down weight to Cruiserweight, then proceeded to rehydrate up to like 210s on fight night, so he wasn't a small fighter for that weight class.

 

Usyk is a legend and will go down as one of the top 15 HWs of all time. H2H, he could hold his own against any of them. At cruiserweight, his run was remarkable, and while his HW run has been impressive, it is being grossly overrated. I agree.

Joshua was not the same fighter after he lost to Ruiz; he is also not a fighter who belongs in the pantheon of greats. He is defensively poor, with a weak chin, and would not fare well against any of the greats, especially those with power.

Dubois is one of the great marketing jobs of Frank Warren. Dubois lost every round to Joyce, made him look like Larry Holmes, and then took a knee. Lerena had him on the deck several times, and Hrogvic was headbutted at least 25 times with no rebuke. A Euro-level hype machine that Warren marketed as the second coming of George Foreman. Usyk already showed in their first fight that the gulf between them was enormous, so the second fight for me was just running over the same ground. The fact that half of his HW resume is Joshua and Dubois does not do anything for me when it comes to the weight of his legacy.

Fury was post-Ngannou, post-28-stone, post-cocaine. He still had some great moments against Usyk. While Usyk's win, achieved with such an enormous weight difference, was a solid A-grade victory, Fury is someone who will not be considered one of the greats when the dust settles, especially after that Ngannou farce. Usyk is a great of this era, but people saying he's the greatest heavyweight of all time are getting completely carried away.

 

Terrible thread. Not worth a thoughtful response.

 

Hes beaten the best there is to fight. That's about all he can do

 

I mean yeah it'd be hillarious if it wasn't so disrespectful. Guys beaten 5 at HW guys dropping over 3 rounds a fight. GOAT, P4P number one. Its absurd.

Normally supporters of guys with Usyks kind of career are lamenting what a shame it is they didn't do this or that. Like with Bowe even if you think Bowe could have beaten anyone theres an understanding he didn't prove that and his career was too short. Ward and Calzaghe were undefeated with longer resumes then Usyk and their biggest fans will be honest about what they did.

You'll find lots of double standards with Usyk fans because they don't hold his career to any standards. They only care about "undisputed" and that Dubois, Fury and Joshua are supposedly the 3 best fighters of the most evolved era and Usyk is 6-0 against him. Nothing else matters to them.

Then theres the whole pretending Usyk is small and hes making P4P history. Its laughable and east to prove they are lying but they don't care and just keep repeating the talking point.

 

So did Tyson, and he is criticized into oblivion

 

Tyson fought in a far more competitive era than today. And people **** all over him for everything. the 80s might not be the strongest Era, but it was better than everything after Mike Tyson left the sport

 

You can skip dubois . The first win was more than controversial and the second fight was a joke when you look at dubois performance that night , justis huni would be far better . The win over fury was something but it was a fury who struggled against ngannou , not a peak fury . The only remarkble wins were 2x aj , here usyk deserves respect .

All in all usyk has 5 opponents at heavy and now he avoids parker and kabayel , surely for a reason .

 

Haye was considered "great" at cruiser. He was supposed to bring the glory back to UK, and he ended up being just another paper titlist and a name on Wlad's resume after barely squeaking by Valuev who was one of the weakest HW titlists of all time at the time.

Cruiserweight division has been around for roughly 45 years. Aside from Usyk, dozens of Its champions have tried it at HW and all but one of them (Holyfield, a genuine ATG himself) have failed. That's why what Usyk has accomplieshed is truly great.

He's not the GOAT obviously, but he's one of the two greatest fighters of his era along with Crawford and right behind Mayweather and Pacquaio as one of the greatests of the millenium.