Would you favour any other HW in history to run Usyk's pro gauntlet 25-0?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Redbeard7, Oct 1, 2025 at 4:39 PM.


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This poll will close on Oct 8, 2025 at 4:39 PM.
  1. Yes

    79.1%
  2. No

    20.9%
  1. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd further add that Ali would have benefitted from modern day activity levels (meaning, the general lack of overall activity by modern heavies, which I believe would benefit him and many others who competed in busier times).
     
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  2. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh my goodness!
    :lol:
     
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  3. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't know how you could be especially confident I'm wrong when even within an era (where many important factors are held constant) it's difficult to predict fights (as you know), let alone comparing fighters 80-odd years apart.

    If you believe that boxing has followed the same kind of pattern in sport generally, my claim isn't wild or bold. Quite the contrary.
     
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  4. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Barring Holyfield, I don't think the cruisers you mentioned stack up at all against Usyk's era. I'd take Briedis and Hunter over all of the others with confidence.

    I favour Usyk over Lewis but that's not the basis of the OP. It's a hypothetical based on the fact that other elite HW's in history, Lewis included, likely wouldn't run his gauntlet based on their actual records (one-punched by McCall and Rahman, drew with Holyfield as B-side).
     
  5. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You personally claimed that Ike's 2-0 at HW is better than Usyk's 7-0 at HW. No serious argument can be made for that and it makes a mockery of your other claim about number of HW wins being so important.

    You claim that Usyk has "2 A-grade wins" when he beat Fury and Joshua on not two but four occasions. You've said that the extra wins are "meaningless" to you, even though it's obviously and statistically much harder to win twice against top opponents than to win once. Your derisive claims about "Euro level" also lack definition. Was Mildenberger Euro level? KO threat is also vital to consider as even B-levelers can one-punch ATG's, even if they don't hit as hard as Dubois.

    You had Usyk as a "top 3" cruiser before. Who is the other guy you think may be/probably is better?

    I don't care what Usyk would say, he has a humble persona. If he thought he'd school Ali or Louis (and he probably does) he wouldn't say so. It wouldn't do him any favours with the Western boxing establishment.

    Usyk is more of an industructable machine than other top HW's who got schooled by Young and Morrison, TKO'd by Puritty, Sanders and Brewster or one-punched by McCall, Rahman and dropped more results besides that.
     
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  6. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    Holyfield went to war on his divsion and by 39 he was cooked.
    Usyk has had a relatively easy career in comparison.

    Holyfield whipes out all of Usyks opponent in a much more dominant fashion than Usyk did.

    Usyk's Resume at heavyweight is absoloutely atrocious.

    He beat Fury twice, who had been knocked down 4 times by Wilder. If you do not think that means much. These two guys were heavier than Frazier was when he fought Ali. We go on and on about the damage they did to eachother, but Wilder was bigger than Frazier and Wilder and Fury had 9 knockdowns in 3 fights one where it looked like Fury nearly died, and you dont think that had any play in Furys fights with Usyk? Fury beat the regining Wlad sure,but we can't ignore everything that happened between Wlad and Usyk

    Fury was damaged goods from the Wilder fights. As Proven by how much he struggled with Francis.

    Joshua was knocked out by fat Ruiz.whos knockout record was not that impressive at that point considering. I do give AJ some credit for Wlad. SOME, but we have to come to terms with the fact that Wlad was 41 and Joshua nearly got knocked out himself. His best win after Wlad(or even better than Wlad considering Wlad was 41) was Joseph Parker. Povetkin was pretty much 40, Pulev was 40 and then he fought a bunch of nobodies.

    So what we are left with is Dubois who had not fought anyone of any consequence.

    I am actually gonna make a thread about this as I think people need to wake up about Usyks heavyweight run. It is not that impressive
     
  7. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

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    Ok the Rock isn't a boxer but he fights with Usyk in the new movie and there is an interview out there where he says he couldn't believe how strong Usyk was and the he (Rock) felt if he got hit solid he was going to the hospital .
     
  8. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I didn't bother reading your post because a got four lines in and knew it would all be ill-informed and ridiculous.

    I'll inject some rationality:

    In order to win every fight on Usyk's record, there would have to be no one on Usyk's record who was a quality/stylistic problem for him, whether over one or two fights. He'd have to be extremely consistent, never have a bad off night, or get derailed by a devastating punch. He'd have to either always stop the opponent (which didn't happen much when he fought good opposition) or he'd have to overcome being the B-side on the scorecards (which he didn't have a lot of experience doing). He'd also have to keep this level of performance up into advanced age (Usyk will soon be the oldest ever Ring HW champion).

    We know from history that M. Spinks, Douglas, Moorer, J. Ruiz, McCall, Rahman, Byrd, Puritty, Sanders and Brewster were all capable of upsetting top HW's, always or almost always as B-side fighters.

    In reality, Holyfield dropped results on seven occasions at age 39. Given this, he'd have next to no chance of going flawless vs Usyk's list.
     
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  9. Joeywill

    Joeywill Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The only person I can compare Usyk to is Holyfield cause of the cruiserweight stuff and I think Holyfield is likely to have an off night along the way
     
  10. Tankatron

    Tankatron Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'd fancy Holmes aswell to be honest: teak tough, exceptional jab, very high ring IQ and a very solid 6'3-4, 215-225:lb, so similar to Usyk size wise
     
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  11. Tankatron

    Tankatron Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The likes of Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Lewis, Holyfield have more impressive resumes than any HW of the last 20 odd years. The fact that Foreman just as an example has a stellar career, has a 10 year break to then come back and win a version of the HW title is currently unmatched and likely won't ever be repeated, certainly not in my lifetime.
     
  12. NewChallenger

    NewChallenger Member Full Member

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    I honestly feel it could be repeated. Just solely based on fighters today, are far more effective in their mid 30s than they were before because of sports science.
     
  13. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg @paulmillsproboxfit Full Member

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    Not making it a Holyfield thread, but his route to the heavyweight championship vs Tillis, Thomas, Dokes, Rodrigues, Stewart, McDonagh and finally Douglas would have most current heavyweights going life and death. I’m sure Usyk also beats them all but that’s a baptism of fire compared to him beating Witherspoon, Chisora and AJ for his.
     
  14. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No, not really.

    Michael Dokes' best days were seven years and a cocaine addiction behind him. The next year after the life and death against Holy, Ruddock massacred him.

    Douglas was a beached whale who soon thereafter almost lost his life due to his eating disorder.

    Thomas was a heroin addict. Heroin.

    I think you are flat-out overselling Stewart, McDonough, Rodriguez and Tillis.

    I'm not saying he didn't earn his title, but this was not murderer row.
     
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  15. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Had Holmes (6'3, 215 lbs being his average title weight, which was big in that era) been the B-side he could have easily lost to or drawn with Norton, Witherspoon or Williams (he didn't rematch any of them) before he actually lost at age 35 to former LHW Spinks.

    He was also vulnerable to rights: down against a 188 lbs novice pro/future journeymen, down against 202 lbs Weaver, down against non-titlist Shavers, down and saved by the ropes against non-KO artist, non-titlist Snipes. KO'd in 4 by Tyson.

    Given this, it's extremely unlikely.