Would you favour any other HW in history to run Usyk's pro gauntlet 25-0?

Again, we are making too much of Holy's oppoennts.

Beached whale Douglas
40+ Foreman
40+ Holmes
Post Prison, drug addict Tyson
Bowe, whose only good win is a tautological win over Holy

Some of them aren't bad wins, but no, every decent Holy win has an asterix, too.

And of course, there was "EVAN FIELDS."

Nor would you see Usyk losing to Michael Moorer

No, I am going to respectfully disagree with you. In context, Usyk's top wins are a hair better.

 

Good thread with good discussion.

 

Lol at Evan Fields. He got KO'd by MW Toney. And Fields beating Fury is just hilarious stuff, honestly.

Lol at Lewis, he got one-punched twice. Little chance he gets through Fury/AJ/Dubious without being KO'd at least once. He could actually get KO'd 6 times there, but I'd say probably twice at least. Anyone who thinks he comfortably goes 6-0 there like Usyk is utterly deluded. There is a GREAT chance AJ and Dubious land their bombs on him and then it's over. Fury could also get a TKO and given Lewis's chin, even a KO.

Wlad would be the best chance, but he did lose to Fury so it's speculation whether he could beat Fury as a prime fighter. I think it's possible, but it's hard to be confident in that when he lost fight the same way he'd have fought years earlier.

 

I voted no, but the question is suggestive and we have to mind the implications. It does not automatically mean that he is the greatest of all time. He might be but not because no one else beats all of his list.

The reason why I say no is because of the level of both cruiser and heavy opposition. Who else could do it.

1. Holyfield could do it. But I assume he would lose along the way. Even way likelier if he had modern drug testing. And he had too many losses not to have a hunch that he might pick up at least one along the way against joshua, fury, dubois.

2. Ali could do it if we assume he could have fought at cruiser. Tyson at cruiser?

3.Moorer/byrd etc would struggle...

Most others are too historical to compare or too big to Imagine in cruiser...

So the list of competitors on this exact task is slim it seems to me.

 

Foreman was still good enough to win the championship. And he hit like a mac truck even at 45. That counts for something.
Tyson was still the third best in the division and he just iced the WBC and WBA champion 1 year after coming out of jail. He was ****ing sloppy as hell,but he still was the third best heavyweight at that time.

Holyfield wins are far more credible than Usyks. Joshua got iced by fat Ruiz for crying out loud. Fury was effectively done at that point too and way shot.
The reason why Tyson was a better win than Fury is because Mike hadn't taken the amount of damage Fury had and fought contenders when he came out of prison. Fury after Wilder didnt really do mcuh. And he must have known that he was shot

 

I'll add Wlad to that. He was very consistent, fought many, many styles and almost beat prime AJ at the age of 41.

 

Loads of people would beat those guys. Lennox Lewis would be my first pick but I also believe Foreman, Ali and maybe even Tyson would beat all those guys.

 

Every fighter takes PEDs, just not all of them get caught and not all of them take as many as others.

 

This is something often parroted by people who are fans of busted PED users, but isn't true.

At the highest levels it may be a lot, but it absolutely isn't "all".

 

Well maybe not literally all of them but considering we have a ridiculously long list of high profile fighters who have been caught it’s fairly safe to assume there are many more who haven’t been caught. I could list around 15 or so of the best fighters from the last 20 years who all got caught just off the top of my head.

This isn’t meant to defend Holyfield or anybody else’s actions but my point would be that Holyfield being juiced up wont be as big of a an advantage as you might think as his opponents will likely also be juiced up.

 

Sure, but there's a lot of daylight between that statement and "literally every boxer you see on TV is on gear", which is just sour grapes cope & seethe from defenders of known juicers.