Most unbeatable nights for fighters

Holyfield v Moorer 2. That was Holys night.

 

Oh I agree, I don’t take anything Ali says with much more then a grain of salt - he said what he said though and so did his ghost writer, neither is reliable.

 

Then why are you using a trash talking quote from Ali as a solid talking point with Swag arguing for multiple pages refusing to drop said quote...?

 

Whenever Jack Dempsey is brought up, his form in the Willard fight is as well. As Ray Arcel said in his interview with Dick Cavett "...the Jack Dempsey who fought Willard might have been given credit as the best heavyweight there was." He went on to say "The Dempsey that fought Willard I think is one of the greatest heavyweights I've ever seen."

 

Because that’s the quote game everyone plays, if others find it valid that’s fine, it’s what Ali said and I believe it but he’s not overly consistent. Ali said GF didn’t hurt him right after the bout, complained about a visible thumbing injury and I tend to agree with him based on the film and his description of the rope a dope in my last post, It seems much more likely then the ghost writer account that doesn’t reflect the bout and the whole “pissing blood for a month” thing I keep hearing so that’s the version I go with, It’s not that complex - Ali’s an unreliable narrator but the above makes the most sense based on the evidence. Ali was underwhelmed by his power, didn’t get hurt, conned Foreman with an old pros trick in the ring and won.

 

The problem is the things you consider to be "what makes the most sense" are quotes, data, etc that are already in line with narratives you decide beforehand. In this case, that Foreman apparently sucked. So of course you'll say that a quote that paints Foreman in a bad light makes the most sense "based on what we see".

I could say the same thing about Holyfield's quote about Foreman's power. Not only was he visibly hurt, he held on tightly to Foreman on multiple occasions and the ref had to separate them. That isn't my opinion, it's a visible fact. So is Ali preaching the gospel and Holyfield is full of hot air?

 

I didn’t say Foreman couldn’t hit learn to read. my narrative is Ali didn’t absorb “hellacious punishment” that’s a myth, he clearly was too savvy and Ali didn’t let Foreman land anything, whatever got through must’ve been underwhelming for Ali to say what he said. I’m not going to say it again for you I think GF hits very hard but Ali picked him apart like he said in his quote about the “Rope A Dope” it was a mirage.

 

They were mostly arm punches in the clinch…

 

To quote Ali “A mirage”

 

“The psychology is not really taking punches. Making myself what you might call a 'mirage.' Making the fella see something he think he don't see. Make him punch, looking for openings. The object of the fight is to chase a man, or to corner him, and they all think I'm gonna dance and run - Foreman thought that. What happens was I led them into the ropes, and they punched away, looking for openings, and they're whamming the jaws and the sides and the arms... If you're in top-notch shape and experienced, you know how to stand there for a while. All these fellas threw shotsall day, didn’t one come through.”

To quote Bob Fitzsimmons, a little to the left and he wouldn’t feel It. A body punch is mostly accuracy , GF wasn’t hitting the right spots or we’d know it, Ali or basically know man is poker facing through multiple liver shots, solar plexus punches or blows to the floating ribs… I’m sure Foreman got him pretty good a couple times but not anything “hellacious” like we hear.

 

Out on his feet? In his ghost written book? I’ve seen the fight, not what I saw. The grazing shot thing? That’s not how that works.

 

Holyfield vs Douglas