Carlos Roque "Shotgun" Monzón vs. "Marvelous" Marvin Nathaniel Hagler - Definitive Classic Breakdown

Something that hasn't been discussed:

Cuts...

I can only really think of a single instance for either man where their own skin getting broken almost played a significant role - Bogs for Monzón and Hearns for Hagler, and in both cases they rallied & stopped their opponents shortly after to make the point moot.

It would be that classic head clash petri dish of southpaw vs. orthodox, however - and both not only threw hard punches but also weren't above the occasional fouling (Hagler with butts and Monzón with thumbing/lacing) with a penchant for regularly opening cuts on their opponents. So while a KO either way strikes most of us as unlikely, what about stopping early due to damaged tissue?

 

They did a thread/poll on this match-up on the BoxRec forum, started 21 years ago, with sporadic bumps over a fourteen year period... with a slightly lower turnout (61 votes total from 2004-2018; compared with this one having 83 & counting in under a month)

Theirs had not only a different result but much wider margins:

62% Hagler
38% Escopeta

https://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15117

 

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I too am in the staunch minority that saw him beating Leonard. Most contemporaries viewed Watts vs. Hagler I as Philly homecooking - but he did unquestionably lose to Willie the Worm the first time. I believe that's why he only crushed Boogaloo Bobby the once; point proven, no rubber match needed. Monroe, on the other hand, had to be utterly vanquished twice over to fully exorcise those demons as he's the one that Hag acknowledged defeated him fair & square.

As for his draws, the Seales rematch is generally considered a fair decision (Antuofermo I, less so).

So, the best you could push it for Hagler would be 27-1-1 from the listed opposition.

Even so, 20-0-1 for Monzón and 24-3-2 for Hagler are both incredible records against top ten Ring ranked opponents.

 

I read that Dundee (who studied Monzón extensively before manning the opposite corner for José Nápoles, in Mantequilla's disastrous jump up from welterweight to challenge for Escopeta's middleweight title) once said that Monzón was really a light heavyweight masquerading as MW - that his build & power were that of a natural 175lber.

There could be something in that. Vito Antuofermo has claimed that Monzón once knocked down Joe Frazier (albeit late in Smokin Joe's career, as he was suffering from cataracts and close to retirement) in sparring.

He's a larger middleweight than Hagler, that's for sure. Hagler famously didn't let himself get above 165 between fights so there was barely any cutting involved during his camps. In fact, if he competed in the day-before weigh-in era, unlike many fighters there's no reason to suppose Hagler would have competed anywhere aught than MW.

(technically day-before started in the first half of the decade, but Hagler did morning-of straight up through SRL - and the practice wasn't fully adopted sport-wide until early in the 1990s)

 

It wasn't just Marvin himself that held Carlos in extremely high regard - his mentors Pasquale and Guerino (better known as "Pat" and "Goody") Petronelli both held up Monzón as the "gold standard" benchmark of comparison, and referred to all the middleweight titlists in between them as mere "cheese champs".

Pat said, in an interview with the NYT on March 11th of 1986 (the day after Hagler knocked out John Mugabi), that "Monzón's record is our dream, two more and we tie it..."

He was referring to Monzón's fourteen consecutive middleweight title defenses. Hagler would, alas, remain forever stuck at twelve - Mugabi being the last victory of his professional career.

One has to wonder how much Hagler and the Petro bros collectively were kicking themselves for taking Leonard's bait in '87 (especially knowing and saying ahead of the match they were aware the deck would be stacked against them), instead of WBA mandatory Herol Graham and then another ranked challenger or two in order to fulfill their dream of matching & surpassing Monzón's record. Obviously after losing his titles, Hagler at the age of 33 wasn't about to start over and embark upon another try at 14 straight title defenses.

 

Yeah, you could definitely argue that Dundee received a more or less finished article when Mantequilla defected, with most of Nápoles' estilo fino formed by Cuco Conde already.

Do we know when exactly José and Angelo linked up, incidentally? I just tried drilling down on the subject, seems particularly hard to pinpoint a date. I think Monzón might have been the first and only time Dundee was primary cornerman, but he had worked Nápoles' corner several times (as cutman in Backus II, IIRC) and had at least a hand in training him in the gym for close to a decade.

 

Fascinating! I started a thread on Graham recently and the overall temperature on the board toward him seemed to be that he was good but not great. You give the 1987 version of Bomber a better chance at clean victory over Hagler than SRL of '87?

Mind you, this would have been one month before Graham lost to Kalambay.