Boxers who were known as sparring partner's in the beginning of their career.

I dont think you understood my post .. mobbed up is the negative impact not the positive .. they are used as pawns.

 

Thanks for posting this source, though I think it strange Carpentier never mentioned McVey in his autobiography.
Seven months after this McVey was dead.

 

I think Mcvey was in the US for all of 1920.

Griffin didnt train Fitz,he sparred with him,on this day
Aug 9 Hank Griffin Los Angeles, Ca EX 1
Aug 9 George Dawson Los Angeles, Ca EX 1
Aug 9 Hank Griffin Los Angeles, Ca EX 1
Aug 9 George Dawson Los Angeles, Ca EX 1
Aug 9 Hank Griffin Los Angeles, Ca EX 1
Aug 9 George Dawson Los Angeles, Ca EX 1
This was a month after Fitz had lost his rematch with Jeffries. George Dawson was Fitz's trainer for Jeffries, and also one of his sparmates. Box Rec confirms you are right, Griffin was in Fitz's camp and a second in his return match with Jeffries.Good Info!
Boxer Hank Griffin trainer of Bob Fitzsimmons? - BoxRec

 

Well Joe definitely benefitted. He was going nowhere, got a mob manager and suddenly kept getting title shot after title shot after title shot til he won one.

As far as Walcott being used, I think of the immortal words of Bill Withers:

I wanna spread the news
That if it feels this good getting used
You just keep on using me
Til you use me up

(Bill Withers was such an awesome talent.)

 

FWIW, in this newspaper article dated 5 July 1910, 1 day after the fight, Jeffries is quoted as saying - 6 years ago (being 1904) the result “might’ve” been different.

Remember also that, as an extension to the claim that Jeff said he could never have beaten Johnson, Jeff was also quoted as having asked for Johnson’s gloves after the fight - that, specifically, is a request that I strongly doubt Jeff made.

https://publish.illinois.edu/theroyale2023/the-fight-of-the-century/

 

Has Ollie McCall been mentioned?

Does anyone thinks it’s true that some fighters fail to transcend/move beyond the mentality of a sparring partner when pursuing their own careers?

Just imo and I probably stand alone on this - but I think that Ron Lyle kinda subordinated himself in some fights.

 

No argument/point being made here, but since Jeffries has been mentioned, I thought I’d share an interesting series of articles published in 1935 in which Jeff speaks directly of his career from go to whoa.

I’ve shared it before but the link deserves a refresh for those who haven’t ever read it before. Some nice older pics of Jeff incl.

It’s not an easy article to find. When searching on Jeffries it certainly doesn’t present as readily as the same ol’ same ol’ stuff that most, if not all of us, already know: -

https://scvhistory.com/scvhistory/lw3586.htm

 

I think your slant on the facts is the opposite of what happened. Walcott was hired to spar with Louis, and JJW quit after a few days, maybe even one day. I think this was before one of the Schmeling fights. Before Louis held the title [that is up until the time he fought Uzcudun in the Garden (NY) in 1935] he was training in gyms in Detroit and Chicago. Walcott was from Jersey. To my knowledge, Walcott never tried to get into a Louis camp until Louis was already a big name, and by that time Walcott would have been Louis' sparring partner and not the other way around.

The idea that Joe Louis was the thrashee in their sparring sessions was long ago debunked in prior threads. I know I contributed photos in one of them showing Louis decking Walcott and not the other way around. There was an article published by someone around 1951 that said Walcott dropped Louis, but that was hype and simply not true, and it certainly didn't rise to the level of Joe having to "shake that reputation."

Anyway, Joe Louis is best remembered for a lot of things other than having sparred with Walcott.

 

No. The post you were responding to about Joe Louis being Walcotts sparring partner is factually inaccurate. Walcott was briefly Louis' sparring partner for a day or so, took a beating, and then quickly left camp. Afterwards his manager at the time put out a story that he had been kicked out of camp because he had made Louis look bad. That was just damage control. There are photos of Walcott being knocked down during the session and reporters were there to see Walcott getting hammered and leave unceremoniously.

As for Walcott not getting the breaks, Im not sure how anyone can say this. His record is littered with losses to fighters he should have beaten if he was as good as you say but it also shows him getting chances to rise in important fights and failing. Its not like he wasnt being given chances. The war was on during what would have supposedly been his prime and not coincidently like every fighter from the supposed murderers row who was supposedly being ducked by everyone he wasnt able to get the big fights because the majority of fighters were in the service and those that could still fight while serving were doing so infrequently at best. Its not wonder that after the war when the sport had been bled dry of talent and was called by many experts the weakest era in its history at that time you start to see fighters like Walcott suddenly emerge as leading contenders.

Even then it took Walcott five tries (some of the undeserved) to win a title against a former light heavyweight who most considered simply decent at the time, nothing great by any means. Its only revisionist history and his record from the lower weights that causes people today to suddenly rate Charles as this pound for pound great. But thats another argument. I just dont see how anyone can pretend Walcott was somehow deprived of chances and sure as hell cant see how anyone can say that Joe Louis is best remembered for being his sparring partner.

 

Bill Tate and Bob Armstrong were only ever primarily known as sparring partners. Not just at the beginning of their careers. Armstrong himself was a prolific sparring partner for two decades. That guy sparred everyone all over creation.

 

I didn’t mean to snag you with that bait, it was just a stupid post and not reflecting of my actual thoughts, my actual thoughts are that Louis is the best HW there has ever been… I do appreciate however the educating you put up. I was under the impression that Walcott had been Blackburn’s first and a developing Louis took the spotlight and they’d kicked him out of camp… I didn’t know if that’s true, it’s old lore and I’m glad to hear you set the record straight KK.

 

In regards to my post it was a bit of unserious bait, it worked wonderfully lol being regarded as a dummy has its perks… yes I have some whacky beliefs by conventional standards but saying Louis is best remembered as Walcott’s sparring partner isn’t one of them.

 

Hey McVey you should checkout Carpentier’s boxing book (like a how to not a bio…) it’s pretty good.