OP thinks Holyfield would beat Ali prime for prime

Well… why not? I don’t think he would win but… I mean Ali almost got KO’d by Enry, Doug Jones was a hard fight in his prime… Mildenberger - Banks dropped him. Ernie Terrell’s activity in the bout consisted of walking forward with his gloves up and grabbing, if he can get inside… Oscar Bonavena gave him a very hard bout, Chuvalo hit him a lot, Mac Foster too. We don’t need to really look into it far to see Ali wasn’t exactly a “master” boxer like say a Toney who’d taken Holyfield apart and would do so at any point In his career. 60a Ali vs Holyfield is a very good bout and a 50-50 affair - 70s Ali might do better doe.

 

Not an outlandish pick even though I don't agree with it

 

Using Pre (Banks, Jones, Cooper I) & Post Prime Ali (Bonavena, Chuvalo II, Foster) to give Holyfield the edge is disingenuous. He had minor issues with Middlenberger, primarily because he was a southpaw & there weren't many of them in his era. Terrell got smacked about. There was no point in even bringing that up. Prime Holyfield struggled with a shot Dokes, Old Foreman, Old Holmes & journeyman Cooper. Ali beats Holyfield 8-9/10 Prime for Prime, & 6-7/10 in the 70s. Toney would NOT beat Prime Holyfield. He got outboxed & rocked in the 1st round by an Old Holyfield & it was competitive for 3 rounds, before Toney started to dominate. I've watched that fight many times.

 

This reminds me of when only 2 fights of Foreman’s count… I’m not arguing about what “counts” take it or leave it your description of Holyfield is also equally “disingenuous” Cooper fight was no worse then Ali’s cooper fight… Old Foreman lost basically every round, didn’t struggle at all, almost gassed out hitting him so much he held for the last few rounds lol. Old Holmes… I think Holmes edged that bout, it’s why I think 70s Ali has a better chance than the rawer less intelligent 60s Ali. Holyfield vs Toney at 190lbs that’s a no brainer! JT is just too seasoned, too skilled he turned Holy into an indecisive statue… when Holy sits down after rd1 and everyone’s talking about how good of a round it was… I don’t think Holy agreed based on that defeated expression he had, that fight was a master class.

 

Do you know who you’re talking to?

 

Out of curiosity, what's your scorecard for that fight?

 

Holyfield might well pull it off I would not be too surprised.

 

The Mildenberger thing is puzzling. He lost about 2 rounds and battered Mildenberger before stopping him - in his third fight in less than four months, against a contender around the top 5 probably having the fight of his life. If that's the best he can do to show how beatable even prime Ali was, he clearly doesn't have much to work with.

Still Mildenberger is almost always brought up by those who think Ali was much more beatable than most believe he was.

 

The Ali that fought Zora Folley in 1967 defeats Holyfield comfortably--UD or late stoppage.

 

Prime Ali stops Holyfield, Evander had close fights with two dinosaurs Foreman and Holmes. His face would be a mess by the later rounds

 

The same could be said for Holy and Holmes, though. Sure, you expect a prime ATG to dominate another ATG that's about 10 years removed from his, but Holmes showed against Merced that he was still very dangerous and Holy beat him comfortably despite the cut (was it an elbow?), so I wouldn't make too much out of that either.

But prime Holy didn't have the performances where he truly dominated his opponents, except for Douglas. Don't know if it was beacuse of his willingness to go to war, because he was a very complete fighter.

Would be very interesting to see how Holy would react to the elusiveness of prime Ali.

 

The court jester

 

Holyfield is the type of fighter that can pull a win against anyone he steps into the ring with. I favour Ali but the opposite wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

H Cooper was a world class contender when he fought a green Ali (still Clay). B Cooper was a shop-worn journeyman when he fought a Prime Holyfield, who he dropped & went toe-to-toe with for most of the bout. Foreman buzzed Holyfield as early as the 2nd round & won a couple of rounds - rocking Holyfield socks several times in a tough fight. He struggled. Critics even criticised Holyfield for not being able to stop an old, out of shape Foreman. He barely edged Holmes (although the cut from an accidental elbow by Holmes in the 6th Round likely played a role). At CW, Holyfield of the Qawi fight would beat Toney of the Jirov fight via SD. Tough, but Holyfield has all the tools to beat Toney there (jab, footwork, combinations, counter-punching skills, IQ & work-rate). He'd outhustle him to a decision. He'd also have beaten Jirov more decisively, most likely by stoppage.