Statements You are So sick of Hearing ...

TBF, when Tyson was new, I was not a casual fan anymore.

I was 14-which might be the key here-when he beat Berbick,. But I was an amateur boxer sort of, having had two fights, and was training almost every day with a zest I had no idea I had, even as I hated the pain excersise gave me. At that point I had moved away from the town where i was in a band so had my complete afternoons to train, while all my friends were doing homework, before going out to hang out with the other kids or to the church in front of my apartment.

Boxing-wise, and boxing-wise only, I wanted to be Muhammad Ali. But I also wanted to be Tony Canzoneri, Miguel Canto, Ruben Olivares, Wilfredo Gomez, Joe Louis, Henry Armstrong, Dora Webber. (she and her twin Cora had been to Puerto Rico in June of 1986 for a televised exhibition and was presented as a women's world champion even through she was not, the exhibition was also presented as an official fight in those pre-boxrec days and she did win by a third round tko) Mike Weaver, i wanted to be Macho Camacho, Salvador Sanchez...

I wanted to be every and any boxer who had been a world champion.

I used to read Tiger Beat, Teen Beat, Rolling Stone, 16, People, Vea and Enterese to read about the finest actresses and cutest actors (though at the time I had no idea I liked boys too but deep inside something told me they were hot and also my girl friends also said they were, and I intuituvely or however you write that, knew I agreed) i also read Ring Magazine, Ring en Espanol, KO Magazine, Boxing Illustrated, World Boxing, Knockout, Ring Mundial and Guantes magazine copiously. I spent a fortune in magazines every month from age 11 to 17 to read about my favorite teen idols,rock stars and boxers.

I also spent hours upon hours watching boxing fights I had recorded on VCR, both from WAPA and Telemundo and also from Tele Once's generous showings of the major cards and Puerto Rican cards LIVE and from a feature on Wapa they had on Sundays during a game show named "A Million" in which clips of fights from the 1920s to the 1980s were shown and then the participant had to guess the fight's result.

My point with all this?

I was not a casual boxing fan, By 14, I was heads over heels about this sport. (as well as music and fashion, like any other self respecting teen girl! lol)

1986, to me, was the year of the M's: Madonna, Molly Ringwald, Mannequin, Andrew McCartney, my newly discovered love for the New York Mets, and Mike Tyson.

I fully went into invincible belief mode. I dreamed so many times about a fantasy match between Tyson and Ali. I always thought Ali would win that one on points but wondered how he would get past the pain Tyson produced. Remember, Tyson was inventing dance moves, done by the men he sent to the canvas!

I think now that being 14 had to do with my belief that Tyson was invincible, but also being a huge boxing fan made me believe he could be in a ring with Dempsey, Tunney, Ali, Marciano, Patterson, Louis, Walcott, the early version of Holmes and so on.

However, hindsight is 20-20, as they say, and we now see that there were holes in Tyson's armor. I always thought that Ali would beat him. But then I thought Ali was the only one who had a credible chance at beating him. Louis' chin could not resist and Marciano would have to take the fight to him because his arms are too short, I thought. Now? I think even Patterson with the right plan can beat Tyson.

But he was, no question about it, the best of the crop of the late 80s. No question about it.. But that crop was also talented but they were all affected by coke and not the kind of coke you bought at soda machines and that competes with pepsi, either. Im sure some also were affected by heroin but not the Wonder Woman type and by crack but not the kind people show sometimes when their pants slip!

 

"You have to TAKE the title from the champion."

Either you win or you don't. Either what you do should garner you the points or it doesn't.

If the claim is that challengers know the risks of the champion WRONGLY getting favoured by more than any other opponent would and it's up to them how much they assess they need to adjust to account for that, and take the consequences, whether fair or not, aware of that likely situation, that's fine. Challengers know it tends to be more unfair and they can play that how they want it, but that doesn't mean it's what the scores SHOULD be.

If you just don't enjoy someone cautiously taking a title fairly and squarely but closely or without much aggression, that's fine. But when you feel it's wrong to get a title because you're just edging out the man carefully, you can just stop appealing to an unfair scenario as being ideal for a competition. Because it's irrational.

 

Alright, MT only has one “real” loss? I hope this doesn’t sound “fan-ish” but Douglas absolutely did beat Tyson in his prime was he at his most prepared? Well no one is 100% every night but MT got beat in his prime and would have every night no matter what happened if Douglas stuck to the plan he did exactly what your meant to, to beat MT.

Roberto Duran also juiced doesn’t get brought up much odd isn’t it? Every thread is “Roid Jones” “Evander Roidfield” Clenelo” but no, no not the forums beloved Duran. Leonard beat him, Leonard lost to him.

about Hagler vs Leonard my favourite is “Oh Leonard sparred really hard in the gym that slimy sneaky snake!” God it’s such an eye roll. “Actually they were secret fights!” Anything done in the gym is sparring, a thing is what it is nothing else… a 147lber off a 3 year break beat an aging Hagler it ain’t a big deal.

I basically don’t know anything about the Tyson case but I trust your judgment and ability to stick to the facts brother.

My one PERSONAL issue, just adding to the list of complaints… Hagler “settling the score” with Vito, he cut Vito 3-4 rounds in that’s it, it wasn’t a conclusive fight at all it basically meant nothing and there first fight wasn’t some “wash” MMH gassed out and didn’t look confident at all. He is 0-1-1 that’s all that matters but it didn’t make Hagler look good or the “beast” he’s hyped to be.

 

Not a fan cliche or a thing boxers say perse, but.

Im tired of the entire Mexico vs Puerto Rico "rivalry" bull that promoters, boxers and some writers always press before a major Puerto Rico-Mexico fight.

Ive lived in Arizona 35 years and only once did I have a problem with a Mexican-who attacked me in a church an d we ended up punching each other in a rather comical episode in 1999, when my life was going through all the crazy ass moments of living in the fast lane.

Other than that episode, all ive seen is love from my Mexican brothers and sisters towards me. They love us and we love them back, In Puerto Rico, there are thousands of Mexicans who have bult a family there and have businesses, most prominently Mexican food restaurants. In 7th grade in Caguas, Puerto Rico, one of our schoolmates, Nancy, was from Ciudad Mejico and she was part of the girls. She spoke with the Mexican accent in Spanish and looked like a Mexican soap opera actress (and was beautiful) and no one cared.

Now, Im Nancy. Im the Puerto RIcan living among Mexicans in Arizona and have been for 35 years. And I love it! Mexicans are among the kindest, most sweet people along also with Americans and us, Puerto Ricans,. And when I tell them im from Puerto Rico they go "viva Puerto Rico!"

But, this rivalry narrative has also made me tell a couple of them, the two or three who showed apprehension when i met them during these 35 years "hey, dont believe the hype. We dont hate you and I sure know you dont hate us back, even Jorge Paez, Machi Camacho, Wilfredo Gomez when they came here for Camacho Jr's fight and Antonio Margarito told me they only do it to promote the boxing show!". And those 2 or 3 said "oh really? Well thats good to know because I like you guys too!"

Still....its smart in one way, wanting to make this a Mexico vs Puerto Rico thing and therefore people from both sides to buy Pay Per View or tickets to the fight, in the business sense its smart, but in the human side its stupid, We are supposed to want to unite people, not separate them!!!

 

Never been a fan of the “axiom”: -

“If you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t trying”.

How about “If you’re cheatin’, you’re cheatin’”?

I haven’t seen Usyk cheat but he has also left nothing in the ring.

 

AND…

“The scoring depends on whether you like the boxer or the aggressor type”.

I dunno, call me crazy but I just like the guy who scores the most and best quality punches.

 

Hearing that Joe Frazier and Ken Norton had glass jaws. What a load of bullcrap! When George Foreman repeatedly hits you on your chin and head,no matter how tough you are,you're going to go down. Joe took hellacious shots from Muhammad Ali,who hit solidly enough,and did n't get knocked down once. Ken got stopped by Jose Luis Garcia when he was green. Earnie Shaver's right hand was one of the hardest in creation,and one thing that Gerry Cooney could do was hit! Ken was n't dropped even once in a total of 54 rounds with Ali and Larry Holmes who were all time greats.

 

All boxers operating on the backfoot are running.

 

I get annoyed when some folks attribute Joe Frazier's FOTC triumph over Muhammad Ali solely due to Ali's "ring rust." Yes, he was not quite as fluid and the timing might have been a bit off but IMHO Ali packed a harder punch in that fight than he ever had previously. Additionally Frazier's bob and weave caused Ali to misfire more than against any previous opponent--(Joe doesn't get enough credit here, his style made him deceptively difficult for an opponent to land a solid shot.) That version of Ali was still a VERY formidable opponent, "ring rust", or no!!

I've always said and will believe till' my dying day--Ali defeats ANYBODY else that stepped in the ring with him on March 8 1971 except Joe. IMHO Frazier sacrificed the rest of his career to get that victory!!

 

B.E., you beat me to it. Always hated hearing this. I always scored on an even keel and most of the time you would hear this from an ignorant announcer on the subject.

 

I love Teddy but I cringe when he says that about Tyson. We get Tyson was a scumbag kid and he wasn´t right... but, c´mon.. 0-5 ...

I am tired of hearing Lewis was a H2H monster when we can watch average fighters like Rahman stopping him... what H2H monster is that ?

 

Another line I would always hear on Forums and such when doing a fantasy match where Jose Napoles was involved is "...but if Napoles doesn't get cut..." This line always annoyed me. Napoles was not a Henry Cooper or Chuck Wepner when it came to cuts. To be clear, he lost his welterweight title the first time around to Billy Backus on a cut in his 70th fight with 12 years of fighting behind him. In that time he had only lost one fight in his career on a cut, to LC Morgan. That was it. Up to the Backus fight he had fought boxers and punchers alike such as Emile Griffith, Curtis Cokes, Eddie Perkins, Ernie Lopez, Carlos Hernanadez without any cuts. How did that happen? After the Backus fight he picked up minor cuts against Backus in the rematch (clash of heads with the southpaw style) and against Lopez in their rematch. In that time he went 15 rounds with Hedgemon Lewis, Clyde Gray and Roger Mentetrey, again, without a cut. It was the Monzon fight, in his 84th career bout where he got shredded. After that Muniz destroyed him and Stracey buried the corpse. There was nothing left of the skin. So again, Napoles was not a bleeder. People tend to remember only those last few fights of a long career/

 

Nonsense. It was ridiculously weak. The Weakest ever HW Era.