Teddy Atlas “ top 10 defensive boxers” list etc - what’s yours?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Journeyman92, Oct 18, 2025 at 2:01 AM.


  1. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s Full Member

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    Per usual we will all think it’s pretty “eh” by our uber nerd standards… rightfully so.

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    1. Jack Johnson (ahh…)
    2. Willie Pep (fair)
    3. Muhammad Ali (Lol no)
    4. Floyd Mayweather (eh)
    5. Sweet Pea (I get it)
    6. Roy Jones Junior (^)
    7. Maxie Rosenbloom (eh)
    8. James Toney (fair)
    9. Gene Tunney (fair)
    10. Vassily Lomachenko (eh)

    Alright gentleman, in typical Teddy fashion don’t watch it unless you enjoy his eccentric ramblings… I do enjoy them… stuff about Dempseys ghost and Gene fighting in heaven, Rosenbloom inspiring the “Peek-A-Boo” style, Ali glazing that kinda stuff.

    Personally… I think this list stinks, VL should not be on the list when Napoles, Griffith, Hagler, Leonard, Duran etc exist… like all of those guys were better at everything than VL.

    The spirit of the list seems to cater towards guys like Benitez and Locche the types who mostly just spent more time avoiding punches than fighting, obvious defensive sorts… but strangely they’re absent? WTH :sisi1I thought they’d be top shelf on his list.

    Strange not much credit is given to any fighters who spent time at Cus’s gym on his lists? Maybe the towel incident got Benitez disqualified? - well the below is my list to pick apart and bully like the unqualified chump I am, sticking to guys on film so no Greb.

    1. Jose Napoles
    2. Willie Pep
    3. Benny Leonard
    4. Sandy Saddler
    5. Miguel Canto
    6.Henry Armstrong
    8. Emile Griffith
    9. Eder Jofre
    10. Archie Moore

    HM: Toney, Johnson, RJJ, Ezzard, Duran, Loughran, Mayweather, Starling…
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2025 at 2:07 AM
  2. META5

    META5 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Mayweather is likely the most consistently great/responsible defensive fighter on film.

    Duran as a come forward fighter exhibits the greatest degree of technical defensive abilities that I've seen on film.

    It's very easy to look remarkable against inferior opposition when you're faster, taller, bigger reach. It's insane to make Leonard miss flurries of punches when fighting in the pocket.
     
  3. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s Full Member

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    I’d say Napoles > Duran
     
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  4. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    I find most of Atlas's lists bad. This one is the worst. No Benitez lol and look if FM is on the list then George Benton needs to be on it IMO
     
  5. META5

    META5 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Hmmm, depends on what you're looking for.

    In terms of reflexive subtle head movement, they're very close. In terms of foot placement and balance, whilst Duran was clearly quicker of foot than Mantequilla, both fighters have superb balance and ring positioning.

    Here's where Duran trumps Mantequilla, for me - his inside skills and grappling prowess allowed him to be super aggressive and consistently in pockets of danger, whilst minimising his opponent's offence with subtle level changes, head placement and trapping of forearms, pinning of elbows and subtle shoulder charges to offset balance, whilst simultaneously offloading his own offence.

    I don't think that Mantequilla blended his offence and defence in the danger zone with the variety and multi-layers that Roberto did - however, I concede that Mantequilla did many, many things with subtle brilliance that I hope my post doesn't diminish as that is certainly not my intention.
     
  6. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I do see Ali on the list. A prime Ali, of course, not the older fighter who couldn't be bothered ducking and slipping. But Ali, yes. I also see Benitez, who was remarkable at evading punches. Also I would have liked to have seen fighters such as Nicolino Loche, Eddie Perkins, Ralph Dupas and Herol Graham on there. Also, an underrated facet of ones technique is footwork and let me tell you, Joey Archer was a master of using the ring. He could move in and out of trouble, not by running, but simply moving in and out to his advantage.
     
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  7. fbear

    fbear Member Full Member

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    Yes! Finally. WIlfred Benitez! He was as good defensively as anyone I have seen. Duran couldn't touch Benitez when he was JMW champion. Took out the highly accomplished Antonio Cervantes at the age of 18. Great head movement. Very good when he was up against the ropes. Leonard? He was good at everything. A great athlete and a smart man. You could say the same about Ali. To me, Duran was an all-rounder too. I never thought of him as a defensive fighter.

    Another fighter I have read about but never seen was Vilomar Fernandez. I heard he was very good defensively, going 15 rounds with Duran and was never seriously hurt. Duran just outworked him is what I surmise.

    Another guy that impressed me was 34-0 Tony Tucker. He had broken his right hand in preparation for the Tyson fight, but took the fight anyways, for the money. Tucker did the rope-a-dope all fight long and was unruffled after the fight. Tyson wins on agression.

    Teddy Atles is a renowned trainer and pundit for sure. Respect to Atlas, but here he is full of crap. Looks to me that he put that list together just to make money. I agree with the OP that the list stinks. All old-school fighters. WIth time brings progress. These guys had monster records because they did not make a lot of money. They were just trying to make a living. A comparison of the two Sugar Rays is apples to oranges. I am sure that Leonard could have compiled such a record if he wanted to.

    A lot of the same old Duran hero-worship here. Respect to Duran. The same kind of worship that makes Jimi Hendrix the automatic pick as the greatest guitarist of all time. That's a crock too.
     
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  8. META5

    META5 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    @fbear opining that Duran is a great defensive fighter because he did it in the midst of danger isn't hero worship.

    It is harder to be defensively responsible when attacking than it is when dancing on the outside, potshotting whilst using jab, feet and hand placement to minimise danger.

    That being said, I have said and will always maintain that Floyd demonstrates the most consistently great demonstration of all four facets of defence - head movement, reflex, feet, arm and glove placement of all the great defensive fighters. However, there is a huge difference between making Hearns or Leonard miss consistently whilst in the pocket or sitting on ropes than there is making a relatively gunshy Terrell or an AJ miss.

    Then beyond that, there are some fighters whom, at times, seem to relish making their opponents miss, but not routinely making them pay. Defence without consistent offence will get found out eventually.
     
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  9. Young Terror

    Young Terror ★ Griselda ★ Full Member

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    Zapata, Duran, Benitez and Locche all need to be on there.
     
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  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Wilfred Benitez is the best I’ve seen. Marlon Starling would be on my list too.

    I have to ask: What Napoles fights are you guys watching to have him among the best defensive fighters of all time?

    Billy Backus, a crude southpaw, couldn’t miss him. Monzon missed with that long, slow right hand … until he got the range, and he was on target with the jab almost from the start. Indian Red Lopez was able to tag him clean with rights and Armando Muniz had success in their first fight.

    I think Napoles was a superior offensive fighter but I don’t see the anticipation and skill defensively that I see in the defensive masters.
     
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  11. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I like the inclusion of Lomachenko. Had he stayed at featherweight nobody would touch him and then as a Small lightweight he has to come forward and fight in the pocket he's still hard to land more than one punch at a time on.
    Benitez must be on the list. It's not a bad list. Ali is too high, he was defensively lazy relying on his gifts but was always there to be hit by left hooks.
    Whitaker was amazing too. Late 80s early 90s wow.
     
  12. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s Full Member

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    Napoles is incredible IMO, smooth boxing, the best pure “boxer” to me there’s ever been…Benitez was dribbled like a basketball by Curry.
     
  13. Mike_b

    Mike_b Well-Known Member Full Member

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    What the heck? Why no mention of Chris Byrd or winky wright? I mean Byrd already has his accolades no frills added... But that defensive style of winky; hands open like earmuffs, elbows in, blocking shot after shot, with no body shot openings. Man, Tito Trinidad had a bad showing against him, Colonel Bob Sheridan was implying Tito to throw a shot to the balls lol. Meanwhile a guy named Joshua Clottey had that same style of defence, air tight defense.
     
  14. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s Full Member

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    Same reason no mention of Starling, Benitez. Nicolino… Teddy Atlas is a hipster with his picks for example like Ali wtf? Byrd don’t belong IMO BUT he’s got a tighter defence then MA.
     
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