If Larry Holmes Hadn't Been Around..?

Don King was the promoter of Ron Lyle-Larry Holmes, and Don King is the one who called it off because of Lyle being charged in the shooting and impending court case.

So, I don't know why, in the exact situation (just switch out the opponent), why King wouldn't call it off. There's nothing to suggest otherwise.

I don't know why you're sticking to your guns so hard on this. It's stated specifically in the NT Times article on Lyle's comeback. "Holmes was set to fight Lyle last year, before he went on to beat Ken Norton for the W.B.C. title. But King called off the fight because of Lyle's legal entanglements."

But whaterver.

 

My scenario works. Maybe it could have been delayed 3 months because we 100% KNOW that Ron was able to fight in June.

You act like Don King bought a concrete mixer and sealed the March date in cement. In my scenario he doesn’t. In reality, he could have made Jimmy Young vs Larry Holmes but he made him with Shavers instead. If Larry doesn’t exist and Earnie is in an eliminator, King could have easily waited three months and decided to do two sluggers instead of Earnie vs Jimmy III … he obviously had other plans for Young as he took him to Puerto Rico and watched Jimmy waste his future with two losses to Ossie Ocasio.

The NYT story says what it says. It does NOT say that Ron Lyle wouldn’t have been able to fight three months later if that’s what King had chosen to do.

This is all fantasy scenario and you’re acting like what I proposed is impossible when it clearly was not. But if that’s where you wanna plant your flag, ok.

 

I will plant my flag there. Because what I said about Lyle actually happened.

Lyle was bounced from the fight with Holmes and lost his ranking because he was looking at returning to prison for murder for a SECOND time.

You keep bringing up the Horace Robinson fight. King didn't promote that. It was a small, off TV, Denver card. Lyle wasn't injured. He was physically able to fight. But he lost his rating and lost the Holmes fight because a murder charge was hanging over his head and wasn't resolved until the end of the year.

Whether Holmes was in the picture or not wouldn't have changed anything.

Holmes had nothing to do with Lyle's legal troubles that year. Which is why you digging in makes no sense to me.

Lyle losing the Holmes fight and his ranking had nothing to do with Holmes. It had to do with the shooting, which would've happened whether Larry was around or not.

 

Lyle killed a man in self defense, as a jury surmised in very quick deliberations.

That might not have been clear in the immediate aftermath of the death during the holidays but would have been crystal clear soon enough.

As I said, Don King could have gotten him ranked. He had friends in high places in the WBC and if he had wanted Shavers vs Lyle in an eliminator in June of that year (in a world where Holmes doesn’t exist), he could have easily made it happen. He could get you or me ranked.

So yes, it could have taken place.

How it ‘actually happened’ was Shavers fought Holmes. But this isn’t a ‘how it actually happened’ thread — it’s an ‘if Holmes didn’t exist’ thread, which wasn’t ’how it actually happened’ because Holmes did exist.

Everything I have laid out as a scenario is plausible. You contend a fantasy thread is impossible, which is a ludicrous stance to take since IT IS NOT BASED IN REALITY BECAUSE LARRY HOLMES DID EXIST.

It’s a ‘what if.’ By definition it can’t be possible or impossible.

But it is plausible:

Earnie Shavers (handled by Don King) is available. Instead of March, the eliminator happens in June. We know Ron Lyle was not jailed in June because he actually fought then. So he’s available. Don King makes a trip to Mexico with a paper bag full of money (he did this often, so that’s not far-fetched). He asks Jose Sulaiman to put Ron Lyle back in the rankings because he has a good TV fight with sluggers Shavers and Lyle rematching in an eliminator. Don returns without the bad … tsk tsk, must have left that thing in Jose’s office somehow. Magically, Ron is reinstated.

I can give you plenty of precedents of the WBC ranking fighters who were facing criminal charges, so using that as an ‘it could never happen’ doesn’t hold water.

You’ve got your scenario. I’ve got mine. Why it is important to you to try to make it as if mine couldn’t happen is beyond comprehensible. Just say ‘well that’s not how I think it would have gone’ and be done with it.

Geez.

 

Give me one example of the WBC ranking a convicted murderer who got out and was charged again for another murder?

Because the example is NOT Ron Lyle. He was dropped from their ratings in 1978 after he was arrested again.

Just admit you didn't know Ron Lyle was involved in a second murder or forgot about it when you posted the first time.

Geez