Prime Hopkins vs Leonard (Hagler) | MW

Is prime Hopkins not a superior ring general to the old Hagler, quicker of reflex and with better ability to make his natural size count?

 

Certainly.

But when was Leonard not the recipient of favorable scoring? And all the details like ring size. Location. ref. all that stuff is to Leonards favor.

Like I said---judges just absolutely love shoeshining. And Leonard was not doing it the first 30 seconds of the round, he does it smart at the end. It certainly would not bother Hopkins and Ray's punches would have like zero effect, but if Nard does not win 9 rounds convincingly, I think the decision goes to Leonard.

 

Hopkins gets a decision, this one would be nasty for Ray.

 

I like Leonard against Hopkins. Leonard's speed and movement
being the difference.
Hopkins is one of the more overrated fighters of the last 20 plus
yrs. In my opinion.
Though there's no comparison in the version of Leonard that fought Hagler ,
and prime Jones. Jr's victory over Hopkins. Leonard was clearly not the fighter
he was a few years prior to the Hagler fight, still, what Leonard had left would be enough
to get past Hopkins .
He'd move , land pretty combinations, and show boat his way to a victory.
He wouldn't white wash Hopkins the way Jones did, but his superior skills
would see him to victory.
Hopkins fight and loss against Jones is a text book to how Leonard would beat
him.

 

I've said this multiple times, there but for the fact he has a "win" over end stage Hagler (we all know Sugar Ray lost that fight), Sugar Ray did absolutely nothing of note at MW. He beat Lalonde at SMW/LHW, he (really) lost to Hearns, lost to Norris and was ended by a Camacho that was just as out of place at MW as he was. Leonard simply wasn't a good MW and Bernard was a monster against former elite WW's that moved up. I think Bernard may actually stop Leonard

 

Leonard did nothing of note? He beat one of the greatest middleweights of all time in Hagler. It is better than any win on Hopkins 160 resume.

 

It's almost like you didn't read what I stated.............

 

your only argument is that Hagler was not prime anymore. I argue that he was still better than anybody Hopkins beat at 160.

 

My main position is that Ray lost:

I actually agree with you, even post prime Hagler was far better than anyone that Bernard ever faced, my position (and a lot of other's) is that Ray didn't beat Hagler. It's like Golovkin/Canelo. I can't give Canelo credit for those Canelo wins being his best wins when I thought he lost both of the first two fights. Same with Leonard. And besides that very controversial win, he really didn't do anything at MW.

 

Leonard, split decision. Similar to the Hagler fight. And many would say Hopkins got robbed. Because Hopkins would do his tricks and make it close.

 

Leonard isn't beating a prime Hopkins at 160. Hopkins is too industrious and will wear him down.

 

In 1979 Leonard beat Marcus Geraldo, who was a top #5 middleweight at the time. Leonard weighed 153 pounds dressed while Geraldo used to train down to 160 and gain another few pounds post weigh in, even then. It was a tough fight too, tho Ray won comfortably on the cards. Many thought it a gamble. I think it's a little underrated personally, given all the context.

 

Officially he may have been top 5, but in reality, Geraldo was one of the top 5 middles in the world? Nah. He was a quick handed, awkward fighter who could make good fighters work hard for the win. But top 5?

 

Dempsey1234, in one of many conversations, told me about Geraldo. It was widely understood in boxing circle that, if you let him get into a fight, you were going to be there all night. But if you got on him early you could keep him from getting settled and it would be a much easier night. He went 10 with Hagler and Leonard but was stopped in 1 by Caveman Lee.