OP thinks Holyfield would beat Ali prime for prime

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Do tell

 

No he wasn't.
Tyson in 1990 was damaged goods, the product of an unstable life outside of the ring, as well as a cash cow who was poorly managed.

 

He was 23, at the peak of his career, and had his two arguably best career-wins against Ruddock right after Douglas smashed him up, blitzing Stewart in 1 round along the way who busted Foreman up.

He wasn’t washed, he just wasn’t fighting with shot drug addicts from the 80s anymore.

 

Was he at his “best”? No, no one is at there peak there entire “prime” Tyson was still a dedicated pro he took Douglas lightly and ended up in a fight he wasn’t mentally ready for… Dorsey vs Paez is similar. If Tyson was game and prepared for a real bout I don’t know if he’d win, Douglas’s plan is exactly how to frustrate Tyson and undress his style. I believe M Tyson was the next best boxer at HW besides Louis and by Ruddock he was fighting like a generic HW and stopped interesting me but vs Douglas he was out-thought and out-fought contenders are pretty good at there job, unexpected by pro boxers can fight pretty well, me as much as anyone wants to give Tyson slack but I’m not blind.

 

Same deal as Foreman people want to make a fighters prime for the length of there success and no longer, I’m a big fan of Tyson but Tokyo was a “prime” fight and he lost… Douglas hatched the right plan for Tyson, Ali with Foreman, Young beat a better version of GF IMO but sometimes it also just doesn’t work out “master plan” or no Quarry fought to a tee exactly how you should vs Frazier right up until the hand break, Holmes did what he was supposed to be MT till he got up on his toes and yes did get caught on the ropes… I prefer to rate on longevity Holmes, Louis, Ali bypassed there “Douglas’s” Tyson did not… well Ali did sort of, he avenged it at least.

 

He more or less does about as good as Patterson

 

What the F… no come on brother

 

Age is irrelevant. He was having issues in his personal life that prevented him from focusing on boxing. He wasn't properly prepared.

Only in terms of fame. His skillset gradually declined after he fired Rooney.

He did not look good in those wins. What made Tyson great was his defensive ability. He barely got hit when he was with Rooney.
He mostly became a head hunter after that.
And after loosing to Douglas, he trained better for the next fights, it was a wake up call for him.

Tucker, Holmes and Spinks were better than Ruddock.

 

Foreman was sad, Tyson had an STD and Japanese hookers, Liston was afraid of Ali, Lennox was filming Oceans 11, Wlad was drugged, Ali was trying to get make his “prediction” right for Enry etc. The HW’s should be rated like the flyweights (both having small pools of combatants due to rarer sized individuals) on consistency and dominance with a factor for size for H2H. In the “flagship” division there is rarely ever any “great” HW’s in bundles usually one guy is out in front but not even by that much (such is the state of the skill level at the weight…) Holmes had a lot of close ones against “guys he shouldn’t”, Ali had a lot of close ones with “guys he shouldn’t” and lots of stuff “doesn’t count” at only seemingly HW.

 

Holyfield was a helluva warrior. He would do everything he could to get to Ali. Though he may have success in spurts scoring punches i dont think he is going to be able to deal with Ali's jab.

Ali's jab is a problem for Holyfield. Not to mention Ali is bigger and quicker. Ali is also gonna be stronger than a prime Holyfield. Just a bad matchup for Evander.

 

I believe Ali isn’t just better, he’s also a bad style matchup for Holyfield.

He doesn’t have a hope of outboxing Ali from the outside, but Holyfield also isn’t a specialist at closing the ring off against movers. He could do it, he was decent at that skillset, but it wasn’t his main strength.

He may land some decent right hand counters or left hooks when Ali overcommits to a combination, which Ali often did, but I don’t think Holyfield would be able to follow up enough to win enough rounds.

I’d also give a similar breakdown if I was describing Holmes vs Holyfield prime for prime.

 

Bit odd I’ve seen strength been mentioned multiple times in threads to do with Holyfield going the other guys way? Holyfield is P4P the strongest HW champ ever, look at that pharmacist… how do people look at 60s Ali and say “oh he stronger”? When one of them looks like a little Mr Olympia freak of nature, No shot at anybody in particular just find it odd…If any advantage the modern guys usually only have physicality yet people will talk about how much “functional muscle” a boxer will have whatever that means (it means he’s good at clinching etc) Shane Mosley easily crushes Frazier if it was just a test of pure strength and it’s a thing in favour of SM if they’d fight…JF would man handle him in the ring because he’s heavier and that’s much more important in grappling with that sort of disparity, all else equal it’s technique then strength… Holy knew how to clinch, butt, fight inside etc Ali knew how to hang off your neck like a Greco wrestling scoundrel which would be a problematic habit against a someone who didn’t care much about hitting low or busting you with the third fist.

 

When there is mileage. There isn't with Tyson.

Congrats, so did every other boxer ever. This is not an excuse.

Interesting how his skills apparently started declining just when his competition started getting better.

What? He stopped Steward within a minute in a vintage Tyson performance, and Ruddock was his best opponent h2h.

He did when he wasn't facing a crackhead. 2 year retired, 38 year old Holmes was tagging him with right crosses and uppercuts when Tyson was coming in, before he randomly decided to dance in round 4. Tucker fought defensively the whole match and he still landed like 3 consecutive uppercuts on Tyson at one point.

Ruddock matches were two of Tyson's best performances as far as trading in the pocket went.

So he was good for the Ruddock fights? Cuz that's my entire point.

Not really. Holmes was 38 and retired for years, Spinks was a LHW on his way out and Tucker had a padded record with no real test up until that point. Ruddock a top 4 HW by the time he fought with Tyson. Him, Tyson, Lewis and Holyfield were the dogs of the division.

 

Real Deal > Greatest