Fights where lack of power cost them

You could say the same of Meldrick Taylor those slapping sort of punches are quicker though I’ll note (and you’d know, you know a lot) that Rosenbloom, Loughran (only the right?) and Holman all had hand troubles which likely explains the “cuffing” real speed to em is how Louis impressed the world with very short punches turning his hips properly and whipping “through” the A-B was so brief it was a blink and you’ll miss it inside with no down sides. Hand troubles don’t just manifest in “slappers” Nicolino Locche seemingly had a bad right hand, Nico would set up the straight and turn into a statue sometimes, I don’t think he’d have developed the defence and left hand he was known for if there was any other way.

 

I imagine Maxim would’ve appreciated some more spice on his shots. I wonder he did in retirement? Do you know? Healthy, I pray, fought everybody but was extremely defensive minded so there’s a shot.

Do any of you know how Maxim went? You guys all teach me a bunch about history.

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I should have read this thread from start to finish and deferred to Pat M's comment above before posting this.

 

I thought he was a Cassino greeter like Louis was

 

4got Miguel Canto

 

If Troy Dorsey had Earnie Shavers power, he’d have been featherweight champ until he decided to retire.

 

He was indeed, I was meaning his health, CTE etc.

 

I met him when he worked at the Stardust in Las Vegas. He was right inside the main entrance operating some spinning wheel type game. 1985, I think. My hair wasn't white yet.

 

Regarding the observation that a fighter hitting with more power changes the way they fight and thus shifts the goalposts so that they get hit more etc....it's no doubt true in some circumstances but not necessarily others. If you're talking about fighters like Pep or Canto where constant mobility, shifts, lateral movement, light footedness, slips etc are crucial to their styles, introducing the idea of harder punching complicates things.

But then take, at the same weightclasses, Howard Winstone and Walter MacGowan. Winstone was a world class pure boxer against the right style and had a mobile, jab orientated approach, but fought a lot more like a boxer puncher with his feet often set when punching. MacGowan vaguely the same, both of them with gutsy, aggressive streaks and not quite the same defensive reflexes or inclination of Pep and Canto.

Winstone without his mangled right hand in particular had the basic mechanics in place within his approach, had he possessed the innate ability and minutiae of adjustment, to punch harder than he did without compromising his already successful approach imo. And that might well have changed the nature of his fights with Saldivar, where he box-punched very well for ten rounds but then lacked the power to deter Saldivar in the championship rounds after not being able to take the steam out of him earlier in the fight for the same reason. If he'd had power on the level of even a Sal Sanchez, it still changes that fight imo even without Hamed/Little Redesque power.

Fammo and Legra are another two who just with slightly heavier hands might have been able to get by Saldivar.

MacGowan likewise with the way he was tattooing Chionoi in both fights with real intent but zero clout, had he been able to punch like Ohba for example, might have stopped Chionoi from being able to cut him up.

Kalule was a good shout above. Smooth technical forward moving boxer puncher but with pillow fists where a small difference might have given him good power without changing his fundamental approach. Hit Leonard with plenty of good punches and really made him take one to land one but was always half a step behind because Leonard's punches took a toll and his own didn't. Likewise Rose and Chucho Castillo against Olivares.

 

To throw a wrench in your first paragraph you can absolutely be mobile, jumpy, twitchy etc and still hit very hard look at Orlando Canizales he was like Louis on 1.5x speed. It requires a very good understanding of where your weight is in transit and is uncommon or else where would the myth come from?

 

I had that fight something like 117-111 for Tiberi.

Vilomar Fernandez would not have been robbed against Howard Davis jr if he had at least 50 percent power. As it was, he dropped glass jaw Davis. I love Davis, great boxer, but Fernandez won that bout.

 

If he were allowed to kick.

 

i missread Miguel Cotto and thought wtf is this guy talking about

 

That's so wonderful i'm so jealousss you got to meet a boxer like Slapsy

did you two talk?

 

Ellis vs Frazier. Quarry was my guy but he gets credit for fighting toe to toe with Frazier for 2 rounds. Also Bonavena. Ellis fought very bravely and battled Frazier just that he didn’t have the upper body strength. He hit Frazier more than the aforementioned but just didn’t have the power to hurt him and got KOd which is why no one thinks of it this way. Ellis was a pretty darn good heavyweight by 1968 he grew into heavy from a middleweight but didn’t develop a lot of upper body strength although with his skill and balance he was often in position to deliver his hardest punch. Remember also he had Shavers on the verge of 1 round KO but didn’t finish him then got caught. Just a little more power. Some concerted weight training may have made him more successful but we ll never know.