Does anybody born in the last 40 years crack the top 20?

I think Top 20 is an insanely high bar.

There is a lot of great fighters, including the two in my avatar for example, and beyond, that don't even sniff top 20 despite being some of the greatest of all time.

Look at it this way for arguments sake: Take every division's best ever fighter and automatically include them....that's already 8 spots filled in theory (of course I wouldn't rank them using this criteria but you get the point). There is just too many great fighters competing for those spots that it's so hard to crack the list, even if you were born in the Golden age of boxing let alone the last 40 years.

If I had to choose, probably Crawford or Inoue like others have mentioned. But honestly, I don't either are top 20 all time

 

You could make a case for Crawford.

 

If Inoue breaks Joe Louis's defence for consecutive title defences wouldn't he have to be ranked about Joe Louis? He'd be a much better fighter in terms of p4p ability and just as consistent whilst having defeated better competition than Joe Louis did.

 

Inoue never even beat anyone on the p4p list , nevermind a hall of famer or ATG.
its only a matter of time before one of the c levellers he keeps fighting shatters his nori chin into pieces

 

I think on this sub Inoue would have to do something crazy to be seen as above Joe Louis who most rate a top 2 heavyweight and a top 10/15 P4P.

 

For Crawford you can make the argument based on rare achievement. Or maybe he's even the only one to be lineal over that range of weight classes? That probably gives him the strongest case.

I find it harder to make the argument for Usyk and Inoue. Usyk being 6-0 over world class opponents he gave up so much size to, maybe?

 

All heavyweights are overrated P4P in a way that makes no sense to me. It's acknowledged by pretty much everyone on Classic that the heavyweight division as a class is one of the worst due to:

A. The physical requirements that you need to compete in it necessitating very small talent pools when compared to lower weight classes.

B. The inability to move up or down weight classes for fights making heavyweight resumes extremely thin in quality when compared to fighters in lower weight classes, so much so that beating 1 or 2 champions + 5 overmatched contenders makes you a top 10 heavyweight, but not even a HOF in lower divisions.

And yet people will put someone like Muhammad Ali 7th all time and Henry Armstrong 8th ._. as if their careers are even close in terms of competition, let alone the former being considered better than the latter.

It'd be like saying that the best striker in the Premier League and the best striker in League 1 are both top 10 strikers, ignoring the fact that the 20th best striker in the Premier League is miles ahead of even the best striker in League 1. That's the equivalent of what the boxing fandom does with Heavyweights.

 

Not saying it's 100% right but just that in seems that modern fighters have to do something insane to make these lists which in a way I agree with because the activity levels are not as high as they used to at the same time.

I actually feel the opposite that heavyweights can get underrated in P4P other than a handful (Louis would obviously be part of that handful). I do agree lighter fighters are more skilled and athletic but I feel like the skill level of heavyweights can get underrated also it's just different because they are heavier handed so output has to limited.

I agree the term P4P tends to favor the lighter weightclasses as you say fighters can move up and down weight classes so it feels kind of feels inevitable that heavyweights will be overwhelmed for the most part.

 

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Former 200 pounder Usyk beating Chisora, Joshua, Fury and Dubois has a very fair argument but there have been so many great fighters.

 

Yes because outside of HW 1990-2015 was the sports golden age.

Theres not an exact science to P4P. Because it by nature is a faulty concept. If you put the same poundage on a shorter man as a HW they will not retain a lot of the things that make smaller fighters better at boxing. If you made them the same size they wouldn't be a smaller fighter.

The problem with using division GOAT as way to measure this is fighters don't fight enough at one weight class to become the division GOAT. Almost none of the modern greats below LHW are anything close to division lifers.

 

Whatever floats your boat. It's P4P.. you make the picks.

 

I agree with the take on modern fighters. It's interesting because boxing is to my knowledge the only sport on the planet that has a vastly different schedule now than its original 1890-something iteration. It'd be like if the Olympics only happened every 12 years instead of every 4 AND if you didn't get matched up with the best competition due to there being 4 different olympic organisations each with their own gold medal . Before if you were a great boxer you'd have a great legacy just automatically. Only 8 weight classes, 2-3 belts and not that much money meant you'd really have to whup some HOF ass to make a living. Now if you want to be great you REALLY have to chase greatness, and why would you do that when you can become a multimillionaire fighting bums instead.

And Ali and Louis are the only career heavyweights that deserve a P4P ranking for me, but I think it should be closer to top 40 or 50 than top 10 or 20 I don't get how people can put Ali above RJJ or Mayweather for example and they're usually not in people's top 10.

 

This is true.

Nobody born in the last forty years bumps anybody on my p4p list from five years ago...still pretty current.

If we go back fifty years, Pac and Floyd qualify.
If we go back sixty years, add Pea and Roy.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sam Langford
3. Harry Greb
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Roberto Duran
6. Hank Armstrong
7. Bob Fitzsimmons
8. Willie Pep
9. Joe Louis
10. Ezzard Charles
11. Roy Jones Junior
12. Joe Gans
13. Sugar Ray Leonard
14. Floyd Mayweather
15. Manny Pacquaio
16. Archie Moore
17. Mickey Walker
18. Pernell Whittaker
19. Packy McFarland
20. Rocky Marciano
21. Barney Ross
22. Marvin Hagler
23. Jimmy Wilde
24. Tommy Hearns
25. Gene Tunney

 

At one point I honestly thought that that Canelo Alvarez was going to me among the top 20-25. But after losing to TWO aging fighter who were both rising in weight to meet him I’m not so sure he can make that cut