Marvin Hagler Not Retiring?

Mugabi was a horrible stylistic matchup for Hagler, and it is one of his best wins. I disagree with the narrative that he was shot. He was on the decline, yes, but so was Leonard. Leonard was also inactive for 3 years and operating against the best 160 in the world, completely out of his natural weight class. SRL had already proved his greatness with stoppage wins over Duran and Hearns, but for me, the Hagler fight is what puts him into the top 10 of all time and cements him as one of the greatest fighters of the 20th century.

Leonard's win against Hagler, as close as it was, is one of the greatest individual wins in the history of the sport, and saying Hagler was completely finished does not accurately reflect just how great SRL was that night.

 

Personally, and as Duran told Leonard after he fought him ( Hagler). Duran told Leonard if he fought Hagler, he'd beat him.
Right after he fought Hagler.
I believe the best of Ray Leonard, beat the best of Hagler regardless.
Hagler always had issues with fighters that could counter his counters, force him to lead.
It's the reason why a natural lightweight/ welterweight made him over think for 15rds, damn near beat him (Also a testimony to Duran's true brilliance in a boxing ring, proof of his ability to do damn near everything in one. His only issue the night he fought Hagler was being smaller , this Hagler eventually took advantage of, won the dec)
Leonard would've been much more evenly matched with Hagler in size.
Plus he had better speed.
I believe Leonard wins a decision over Hagler prime vs prime, just as Robinson would've, Hagler also would've had pure hell against Benitez, Nunn, or Jones Jr. more than a Walker , Greb, Tiger, or Monzon.
Simply because of the way the former three fought.
Some suggest Leonard only fought Hagler because of his noticeable decline.
But conviently forget the fought was being seriously discussed as early as 1981!
Leonard didn't wait to fight Hagler. The eye injury and his own personal demons were the main factors.

 

The best Hagler would walk through Leonard. The best Hagler was almost as quick as Leonard and Leonard had nothing to keep Hagler off of him.

 

If he didn't "walk" through Duràn who was boxing 15-30 above his best fighting weight, how do you suppose he just "walk" through Leonard, who looked like a slim down middleweight?
I love Hagler, but he had certain weaknesses like any other boxer, his was he could be out thought, or forced to over think. Willie Monroe and Bobby Watts demonstrated it early. Fights he did avenge, but he had to is the key.
He was taken out his game by Antefermo 1st fight, he had to Rally to beat Duràn ( Though he did beat him , but he was expected to destroy him)
A smart calculating fighter like Leonard who wouldn't have been at a severe size disadvantage would've exploited those weaknesses too.
If you don't believe me, believe Roberto Duràn, he thought so, and fought both men.
But of course you're welcome to your opinion.

 

You think that the Hagler that fought Duran was the “best” Hagler? Hagler is at worse a top three middleweight. Do you honestly think that Leonard at any point would be a top three middleweight and, if so, based on what? His victory over Hagler in his last fight? Leonard is greater than Hagler but there is no way he beats the Hagler of the Sibson fight.

 

If Leonard fought like Sibson of course he wouldn't.
But he didn't fight like Sibson, that's the key.
Any of the great middleweights of the past that depended on aggression, great chin, and punching power ( Lomatta, Zale, Greb, Walker , Tiger etc) gets taken apart by Hagler.

Yes Leonard had all the physicality and more importantly size,and skills to have been a great middleweight. Only thing that kept it from him was lack of activity in the boxing ring.

The Sibson fight and the Duràn fight both happened in 1983. One fight in between them.
Are you suggesting Hagler had a tremendous drop -off between Sibson and Duràn?
Or was it the fact of Duràn though smaller than Sibson was a much more complete fighter.
And had abilities Sibson could only dream about.
Personally, I believe Duràn was a much better fighter than Sibson could only wish to be.

 

Which version of Leonard do you think beats the Hagler that fought Sibson?

 

When he would've been in his physical prime as a boxer, 1981-85.
Or Without the eye injury or drugs.

 

Here’s an interesting scenario:

Marvin took up residence in Italy when he fled the country after losing to Ray Leonard. The move seems to have taken place in 1990.

So what if Marvin decided to lace them up and go for Italian and/or European middleweight honors?

Not so fast my friend.

Sumbu Kalambay won the vacant EBU crown at 160 in January 1990. No way Hagler at this stage beats Sumbu.

While Sumbu was also the best Italian middleweight, Francesco Dell’Aquila, a guy with a good record who fought few world-class opponents, was as near as I can tell the Italian champ at this time — or if the national belt was vacant he would have been in line to fight Hagler for it. Dell’Aquila lost to Kalumbay by stoppage in nine (in a defense of his EBU belt) and got a title shot against James Toney (quite undeserved) and lost in four.

So I think it’s probable Marvin could have won the Italian championship in 1990, no way he beats Kalumbay for Euro honors.

If he moves over earlier, there’s a four-month period where a guy named Pierre Joly was EBU middle champ and seven months when Dell’Aquila held it, and I’d fancy even an aging Hagler beating guys like that. But apart from those two periods, Kalumbay and Christophe Tiozzo held the Euro title at 160 from the point that Hagler lost to Leonard until mid-1993, which would have been well past Hagler’s sell-by date.

Hagler vs. Tiozzo would have been interesting in this period. I think Marvin with more time off after Leonard would be interesting — Tiozzo is bigger naturally but basically a rough-and-tumble face fighter the likes of which a younger MMH eats for lunch. Just depends on what Hagler could summon at this stage … if he got close to the form he showed vs. Mugabi or even Leonard, he probably wins but it would be a nice slugfest.

And Kalumbay would have been an obstacle to winning the Italian belt during the periods from later 1980s that he wasn’t Euro champ. So I don’t see a good path through for Marv here either.

 

If Hagler could have kept boxing at a high level for 5 or even 10 years the next era was too good to accomodate him as champion. There are times Hagler could have kept going but he wasn't in one of them.

 

Very interesting theory.

Dell´Aquilla was a puncher (he had Kalambay down in the 1st+standing eight count in the 2nd before being stopped in 9) and I believe very popular in Italy at the time.

Probably why he got a completely underserved shot at Toney who toyed with him.

Marvin age+style would have made this fight longer but no less painful for the Italian whose career would be finished at anything over Italian level (he was finished after Toney getting starched by Agostine Carmone, solid fighter at world level wth average power).

But beating Dell´Aquilla would lead to a clamour for a Kalambay match. Sumbu was not the same after the Nunn debacle, he struggled with Dell´Aqulla early on, later was also dropped early in Herol Graham rematch (Herol was robbed in that one) and Britains John Ashton, a British level fight without a big punch.

He did beat Steve Collins+gave McCallum all he could handle in a rematch. That Kalambay would beat an old Hagler on points with an odd scare for the Italian based fighter.

Though Sumbo did beat a peak southpaw Herol Graham (arguably out of sorts)+Haglers half brother Robbie Simms, he did lose emphatically to Nunn and was floored and outpointed in his hometown by an ancient (and naturally smaller+not known for his power) Ayub Kalule so who knows if Hagler who briefly turn back the clock for a round and land a big punch like he did against Obelmejias in Italy!

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That's a fair call.

 

Thomas Hearns knocked the last of Hagler's prime out of him, Mugabi didn't. Sure, the Mugabi war didn't help but the simple fact of the matter is that Hagler only had to go to war with Hagler because his skills were already struggling. Hagler 1-2 years prior would have dealt with Mugabi much cleaner. In no world does prime Hagler have problems outboxing Mugabi.

Ray Arcel had some very strong thoughts on Hagler - Hearns.

Ray Arcel - "When i saw the Hagler - Hearns fight, i knew that Hagler would not fight Hearns again. He took murderous punches. When Hearns hits you, you kinda stay hit. Hagler was subjected to more punishment than Hearns, but Hearns didn't have the stamina or endurance that was needed. Once the cork comes out, there's no putting it back in. Hagler knocked out Hearns in the third round, but he got hurt. He wouldn't want to walk on the same side of the street with Hearns again."

Hagler was most certainly done post SRL. He wasn't shot going into the fight, but he was certainly well worn and faded. If he kept fighting he would have had loads of trouble with speedier young guys.

 

Once you reach the top of the mountain, there’s nowhere to go, but down.

 

He would have probably been beaten embarrassed by a lesser known opponent.