Can you be great without a never say die heart and guts?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bluebird, Nov 30, 2025 at 12:38 PM.


  1. bluebird

    bluebird Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I honestly think thats what seperates Crawford and Usyk from the field.

    Lomachenko was more skilled than both but didn't have the same toughness and refusing to back down attitude, biting down on gumshield and swing. It's what made guys like Mayweather Jr, Ray Leonard, Muhammad Ali go from special talents to truly all time greats in my opinion. I'm not sure even Roy Jones Jr had it, or he never really had to show it at least. When I think of Heavyweights, Holyfield is a good example of someone who had it.

    Inoue and Bam look like top talents but we wont know until they are tested on that level.
     
  2. Scotty Cork

    Scotty Cork Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What Lomachenko didnt have was corrupt judges on his side
     
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  3. bluebird

    bluebird Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Usyk and Crawford wouldn't have let that Lopez fight get away so easily.
     
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  4. Stonehands

    Stonehands Member Full Member

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    You mentioned never die heart and guts and included Mayweather... and then separated Inoue. Crawford is quite questionable too. Good attempt at a thread but quite terrible examples.

    On topic though, no. To truly be great you have to have a kill or be killed attitude. A basketball example would be Jordan being the undisputed GOAT and Kobe's name is often mentioned as Jordan 2.0, and even though Lebron is better than Kobe, he doesn't command the same respect as they do within the hardcore fan base and a lot of the players.
     
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  5. Barrf

    Barrf Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Bam won a belt fighting Gonzalez with a broken jaw for 6 rounds. He got knocked down by Estrada, got up, focused, knocked Estrada out.

    Inoue has been knocked down multiple times.
     
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  6. MidniteProwler

    MidniteProwler Fab 4. Mayor of Aussie Boxing Full Member

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    Honestly all the top guys have heart and guts some you just see it more when they have to face adversity in the ring like being hurt or knocked down and recovering.
     
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  7. chacal

    chacal F*** the new normal Full Member

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    I reckon that being able to grit your teeth and do and take whatever it takes is absolutely necessary for greatness. Nevertheles, imho it is natural. There are guys who are just made like that. I mean, imho it has no merit, imho those guys are born. You cant give credit to a cat for meowing.

    Sooner or later life will **** you really hard, in and outside the ring. Whether you can clench your teeth and go through it or not.

    Having said that, imho anyone fighting 12 (let alone 15) professional rounds is not a normal guy and has massive balls and suffering capabilities. I understand that you are talking about the next level.
     
  8. bluebird

    bluebird Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Mayweather proved he wouldn't let his opponent get over on him without coming back. Shame he never had any blood and guts wars but his mentality was to win at all costs.

    Crawford has a meaness to him, again, another guy who wont let his opponent get off on him.
     
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  9. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne's life coach. Full Member

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    This
     
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  10. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    It's much easier to have that never say die attitude when you're routinely facing opponents you're way bigger than, bigger than or at worst roughly your size who you hold huge, big or the physical advantages over and are never facing opponents much or way bigger than you who hold big or huge physical on you which you have to try and overcome

    And are facing featherfists or average punchers the vast majority of the time you're way or bigger than or ones who are, again, at worst your size and are never facing KO artists and legit bangers and especially ones bigger or way bigger than you

    And when you're fighting exclusively in your backyard or in your country your entire career or if not at worst only not doing so once or twice in your entire career

    Loma turned pro at almost 26 and 135 would've bare minimum been his 6th or 7th weight class had he turned pro at the same age so many of his peers and fellow greats did and he was very often fighting huge or massive 135 pounder weight bullies who were campaigning in their 1st division. Hence why he looked so tiny or small compared to them and he was completely maxed out at that weight and truth be told didn't belong at that weight. He moved up because he dared to be great not because he was a massive weight bully who moved up because they could no longer boil their bodies down to make weight and when he moved up in weight, in complete contrast to all these multiple weight massive weight bully champs, he was actually facing bigger, much or way bigger guys who did hold huge physical advantages over him, weight and reach and often height too

    And he fought lots of punchers or KO artists not only his size but much or way bigger and he was a very aggressive fighter who took the fight to his opponents, despite very often being smaller or much or way smaller and fighting much bigger fighters who were huge punchers or big punchers against opponents their size in a division he didn't belong in

    The only fight he fought tentatively in was the first half of the fight against a much bigger Teofimo who was not only much bigger than him but is also extremely fast and explosive for his size and is very talented and has elite skills too and, as said, he was fighting in his 1st division and one which would've been Loma 6th or 7th bare minimum had he turned pro at the same age.

    And even then Loma took the fight to him in the 2nd half of the fight and was beating him up for spells of it despite that and despite being hampered by a serious shoulder injury

    People forget how devastating a puncher Teo was at 135. Hell, his power, speed, and skills put massive 140 pounder Josh Taylor into his shell

    This is what he was doing to natural 135 pounders and even massive 135 pounders who came in as high as 154

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    Loma has either KO'd, stopped, come within a whisker of stopping, badly or hurt every 135 pounder he's fought sans Teo even though they were all bigger or very often much or way bigger than him

    He wasn't running and holding on for dear life to try and mitigate their power and size he was taking the fight to them
     
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  11. MidniteProwler

    MidniteProwler Fab 4. Mayor of Aussie Boxing Full Member

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    Yep having size advantage and hometown advantage makes it easier to be brave. You can't really judge a fighter until they face the best in a fair fight.
     
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  12. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    It's crazy this needs to be explained. Much easier for the chap on the right to be brave than the one on the left. The one on the left already passes the bravery test with flying colours by not running in the opposite direction at breakneck speed

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  13. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne's life coach. Full Member

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    Let's not also forget over 90 fouls or low blows from Salido. Lawrence Cole should be taken out back, beaten with a rubber hose and shot out a cannon into a brick wall.
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  14. MidniteProwler

    MidniteProwler Fab 4. Mayor of Aussie Boxing Full Member

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    That is why I have a hard time rating guys like Ennis, Shakur and Bam. Yes they look good but they have never really been put to the test on a level playing field or with the deck stacked against them.
     
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  15. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Yes, Salido should've 100% been DQ'd in that fight but the notoriously corrupt ref whose eagle eye somehow managed to spot Dirrell and Abraham's feet getting slightly tangled to dismiss a KD against the home fighter missed all those low blows despite so many of them being so flagrant a blind man could've seen them from the cheap seats and so many of them in full view of him

    In one sequence in round 11 or 12 Roy, Jim and Max couldn't believe their eyes when Salido cracked Loma with 3 very low blows one after the other in quick succession right in full view of Cole. The guy is a corrupt as sin. One point deduction for over 50 low blows, just 1, and the fight is a draw

    And let's not forget Salido had an 11lb weight advantage, deliberately missed weight by 2lbs, and Loma was 1-0 and had never been past 5 rounds before or fought a world class pro, and he was the one who hurt Salido and had him in big trouble in the 11th or 12th and Cole came to Salido's rescue to buy him some time

    Not to mention over a 3rd of Salido's total punch connects were illegal blows and Loma still outlanded him by 22 shots
     
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