Cleveland Williams vs. Jeffries

* googles 'friends' *

 

One could say and correctly, that Goddard was 40 years old,had lost his last 2 fights,to Sharkey by a 6th round ko ,and his last one to Van Buskirk who was 4-3-1,and had been beaten by Jeffries and had lost to2-1-2 Jack Stelzner in his last fight.
One could also say that after his win over the chinny Maher ,Goddard not only never beat another fighter worth mentioning,he never beat another fighter!
After beating Maher they had a return,this is the report.
Goddard, totally whipped and battered to his knees, threw up his hands in the eighth round to quit and the referee awarded the fight to Maher. The Irishman collapsed in his own corner when the fight was over.

I think my point stands.ie that Janitor , a Jeffries fan ,was guilty of exaggeration on Jeffries behalf and I called him on it.

I've nothing against J,it just would have been nice for him to admit he got a bit carried away with his statement,"the guy who was beating elite fighters from the opening gate."
The names do indeed look impressive,until you dig a bit deeper into their records at the time they faced Jeffries!

 

I produced an entire thread once, where I did a breakdown of Jeffries early opposition, and how long after his pro debut he fought them.

It is pretty impressive when put in context.

 

Goddard didn't start boxing competitively until well after 30. Given that fact, and that he had a prodigious thirst for strong waters, he tended to blow hot and cold, holding Peter Jackson to a draw while knocking him down and then losing to some no-namer debuting. Agreed he was at the very end of his viability when he met Jeffries, but a mere 15 months before he had beaten Denver Ed Smith for what was considered by some to be the heavyweight championship (and despite what Boxrec says, I do not find contemporary reports calling it a fix). And again, he would go on to KO a very viable Maher in 1. That's a reasonably challenging, and reasonably dangerous match-up for a guy in his 9th fight. And remember, Jeffries had sparred Corbett and knew the gap to cross to reach the championship level. I would consider the match-ups he took to be aggressive in spanning that gap.

 

My problem is that Jeffries' reputation much exceeds the washed up version we see against Johnson. That version of Jeffries gets sent to the cemetery by Williams. Clearly he is better than that, but the question is how much better. Without footage we are groping in the dark. Williams at his best is impressive. We don't really know what the best version of Jim is.

 

There was immense evolution of boxing from the time of Jeff to the time of Williams. Which strongly favors Williams.

But Jeff, for all his critics, fought the best out there at the time.

Williams spent most of his career as a provincial fighter knocking over second-raters of his era.

So it comes down to a fighter dominant in his era to a decent but in my judgment not outstanding contender in a much later era.

Jeff was by far the greater fighter in his time and place.

So I agree with one of the earlier posts by Mr. Magoo that there is almost no way of making a fair comparison.

I ended up voting for Jeff. Mainly a values statement, I guess. I just don't like giving second-raters in one era the edge over dominant fighters of another era.

 

Then name the opponents he beat that fit in to your criteria?

 

Beating Denver Ed SMITH? What exactly does that signify?

 

The WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPEENSHIP!

 

Denver Ed Smith has 36 wins,21 of them over debutees.10 losses.
Others he won, lost ,and drew with.
4-3-1
1-0-0
1-2-2
4-2-4
4-3-4
0-4-1
0-1-0
1-0-2
1-0-0
0-2--2 Lost
1-2-1 Draw
3-2-0
1-9-1
2-1-0
1-3-1 Lost
He also lost to 3 debutees.
I don't consider beating him note-worthy.

 

How good was a peak Goddard?

 

The best there was.

We can't blame Goddard for facing the man that stood between him and the title.

 

Thirty two wins out of fifty six fights denotes a pretty brief peak.