Mario Veit had never fought a world level fighter before he got into the ring with Joe. And he spent almost his entire career at European level. The only world level wins he had, was over Brewer and Bramher. He also lost the return to Bramher. Lacy was the favourite, mostly because Joe was still unknown to the American’s. It was a masterclass performance though. He deserves huge credit for that. Kessler had an impressive record on paper, but in reality, he’d beaten nobody elite. Neither Kessler or Lacy were great fighters. Hopkins was the only great fighter who he fought. He deserves huge credit for that win. I too believe that he’d have beaten Pavlik, and that would have been far better than beating Roy Jones. And especially as the fight was there to be made, and he’d dismissed Roy as being a shot fighter beforehand.
He beat RJJ who’d rebounded? He fought RJJ, after literally saying that it would be pointless, as Roy was shot and had been for years. This is common knowledge to all knowledgeable fans. I can’t remember Andre Ward being praised for beating Sakio Bika. Bika was limited. But he was tough and dirty.
Good post. However, away from this forum, many people think he is an ATG. Many people genuinely believe that he’s the GOAT. Seriously. I’ve had many debates, both online and in person. Obviously their knowledge is limited, and they’re mostly what I class as being casual fans. But many people have him above Floyd.
Bernard wasn’t one fight removed from his prime. Roy hadn’t had a top level win in 5 years. Joe wouldn’t even have fought Roy or Toney, let alone have beaten them both.
https://www.boxing247.com/weblog/archives/130561 https://www.badlefthook.com/2010/11/27/1839710/fight-results-andre-ward-against-sakio-bika https://m.beforeitsnews.com/african...a-in-old-school-battle-of-the-bay-294412.html RJJ and BHop and Toney didnt travel to Europe just like Calzaghe didnt travel to US. 5 years prior to fighting Joe, RJJ beat Ruiz and Tarver. That was his literal peak, 5 years prior to Joe, he went on to lose three times and looked physically depleted - probably the muscle mass drop or maybe he ran out of PEDs. Wins three in a row including Trinidaddy then Joe smacks the smile off his face. BHop had an even better career after losing to Joe. Joe had BHop going to the wrong corner, had Roach suggesting BHop should retire. With Floyds USADA/VADA, Joe sparks em
BHop beat Pavlik the next fight so he was still a strong operator but I wouldn't say he was near his prime aged 44! Roy was completely shot though. Joe's best win was vs prime Kessler who was a killer. That really impressed me.
Roy and Bernard never had to travel. It was Joe who was under the radar, with a low level belt and mostly unknown opposition. Roy wasn’t at his peak for either Ruiz or Tarver. He was 34/35, with 50 fights on his record. Three wins in a row? Against who? Two C level guys, and a version of Tito who couldn’t make weight and who’d not fought in 3 years?? Again, Joe literally fought Roy after saying that it would be pointless, as Roy was shot and had been for years. He even said that he’d be disappointed to take the fight. Yet he took it regardless, despite HBO and everyone else wanting a Pavlik fight. Bernard was still great for his age, but he needed the right fights against the right opponents. Because of his age, his performances were rightly praised. However, Pavlik was a MW, and Pascal and Shumanov were pretty basic. There’s a reason why nobody mentions the Dawson fights. Also, why are you praising him, yet at the same time, you’re highlighting where Roach had given his opinion that he should have retired?? How does that make sense?? Again, Joe wouldn’t even have fought prime versions of Roy and James Toney, let alone have beaten them. It’s laughable.
That counts for Mayweather as well who beat a lot more champions than Calzaghe. Eubank was fairly recently a champion, as was Reid and Woodhall. Kessler, Lacy and Hopkins were champions going in (Hopkins beat two top 10 pfp south paws going into the Calzaghe fight then a top 10 pfp fighter in the following fight), Bika became a world champions many years after losing to Calzaghe, he was probably better when he fought Calzaghe. Byron Mitchell had just lost a split decision most thought he won 1 fight prior to fighting Calzaghe. Charles Brewer was still in his prime. The only shot champion he beat was Jones Jr. Mario Veit was a fighter Calzaghe beat who deserved to be champion and moved up and beat a solid champion at light heavyweight but never won a world title because Calzaghe was a long reigning champion.
Exactly my thoughts growing up watching him. Big respect to Hatton and froch too on how it should be done
Yes, it absolutely counts for Floyd, which is what I always remind his fans. And especially the ones who are convinced that he's the GOAT based off of those numbers. Chris Eubank hadn't had a SMW win in 3 years. And he'd not even fought at the weight in 2 years. Reid and Woodhall were very good fighters. But Woodhall was at the end of his career, and Reid lost either side of fighting Joe. Kessler and Lacy were young and hungry fighters, who were both undefeated. So he deserves a lot of credit there. Hopkins was also still a great fighter, so Joe also deserves a lot of credit there too, where it was probably the best win of his career. Byron Mitchell was a dangerous puncher. But apart from beating Liles, he had no other top level wins. Brewer was also a dangerous puncher. But he was a B level guy, who had no top level wins. Bika was also a tough B level guy. Why did Mario Veit deserve to be a champion? He spent almost all of his career at European level. The only things he did at world level, was to beat an end of career Brewer, before getting a decision over Brahmer. After having lost to Joe a second time, he was then stopped by Denis Inkin, before also getting stopped by Brahmer in their return fight. It's also worth noting that both Denis Inkin and Jurgen Brahmer, never had any top world level wins in their entire careers. So without being disrespectful to Veit, he hardly did anything at all at world level. He never won a belt, simply because he was never a true world level fighter. Even if Joe hadn't been at the weight, there is nothing to suggest that he'd have picked up a belt in either division.
Mayweather and Calzaghe are similar in that they are both undefeated and all their top names were past their prime.
Yes Joe Calzaghe is ridiculously overrated I think a big part of it is also because he's the best boxer from England So British people pump him up