Did Sugar Ray Robinson Have Any Flaws?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ThatOne, Dec 22, 2025.

  1. SwarmingSlugger

    SwarmingSlugger Active Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,349
    Likes Received:
    1,663
    OF COURSE HE DID. Every fighter does, in his case it was mostly his defense. I noticed this as a teenager when he was getting pummeled on the ropes by Basilio. He was a great fighter but not Super-man, no one is. The fact he took a lot of punches he didnt need to probably contributed to his somewhat early demise. Had he practiced more defense he may have lived longer.
     
  2. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    55,046
    Likes Received:
    49,096
    But he did hit the hardest and he was lightning fast. Joe Louis said he never saw a welterweight punch harder until Thomas Hearns. His offense was otherworldly.
     
    Smoochie and George Crowcroft like this.
  3. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    55,046
    Likes Received:
    49,096
    By the same token i believe he finished over the top of Gavilan in their first fight, which had been fought very competitively with Robinson pulling away down the stretch. I'm pretty sure that was the story.
     
    Blaxx likes this.
  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    55,046
    Likes Received:
    49,096
    That's a top post. He could have fought more cautiously and beaten people more easily but he backed himself and his offense and took it to them a lot more than he had to. It worked out pretty well, to put it mildly. He had plenty of dog and killer instinct on top of his ridiculous arsenal.
     
    Smoochie, Levook, META5 and 1 other person like this.
  5. Yorbals

    Yorbals Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2025
    Messages:
    3,243
    Likes Received:
    2,929
    Maybe it was more of a middleweight trait of Robinsons?
     
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    55,046
    Likes Received:
    49,096
    As he got older i have no doubt he lost a bit of sting. Especially after his 2 1/2 year break post Maxim he was obviously never the same, tho he had plenty of success mixed with disappointment. He had 137 fights over 15 years by that point.
     
    Smoochie, thistle and Yorbals like this.
  7. doc quam

    doc quam New Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2025
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    13
    Robinson had very few flaws but he did have an Achilles heel in Randy Turpin whom gave him fits interestingly Robinson had my old gym maté bobo Olsons number and bobo seemed to have Turpin's number(I trained with Olson at Fort Scott Presidio for his last comeback at Light heavy Doc Quam
     
    Yorbals likes this.
  8. META5

    META5 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,875
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    I think that people forget/underrate how much of a beast Robbi was.

    What he achieved within his first three years as a pro alone, his excellent amateur pedigree (at a time where amateur fights weren't like today's Score and love tap matches), his beating Gavilan, La Motta, despite being about a stone disadvantage in weight - being something like 128 - 1 - 1, Fullmer KO - these are not the achievements of a normal fighter.
     
    Smoochie likes this.
  9. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Loyal Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    31,429
    Likes Received:
    42,287
    If you like. I can only tell you how he was perceived in his time, and mention the frame analysis test they did. But if that is your perception, it is what it is.
     
  10. META5

    META5 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,875
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    The frame test measured a young Ali's jab versus Robbi's jab.

    Robbi didn't necessarily throw the jab with the zip that Ali seemed to get on his so you can only put so much stock in the results.

    What Robbi did exceedingly well was throw combinations with mean intentions on each punch in a way that only the likes of Louis, Ike Williams and perhaps a few others are comparable. Combined with Robbi's footwork, ring IQ and style, you can see why he was often thought of as the crème de la crème of the greats.
     
    Smoochie and catchwtboxing like this.
  11. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Loyal Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    31,429
    Likes Received:
    42,287
    As I said, fair enough, but it is certainly worth mentioning and taking into the conversation.
     
    META5 likes this.
  12. META5

    META5 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,875
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    I think Robbi's speed translates well. Doesn't have the pure handspeed of Hearns and Leonard, but certainly isn't horribly far behind.

    I've said it and I will say it again - Robbi was like a hybrid of Leonard and Hearns, except that he was forged in fire, has a ridiculous résumé, KO power in both hands, can box on his toes when he wants to, can slip and counter when he wants to and had enough warrior spirit to change a fight if he needs to.

    His durability is probably underrated and well, any man that can walk Fullmer onto a shot like that is a KO artist of the highest pedigree - comparable to the finest of Moore or J Jackson.
     
    Smoochie, cslb and catchwtboxing like this.
  13. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Messages:
    24,469
    Likes Received:
    28,998
    He wasn’t great above 160 pounds when fighting in 100-degree heat.
     
    Smoochie, George Crowcroft and Blaxx like this.
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    55,046
    Likes Received:
    49,096
    Ok, so i believe we are still on the topic of your claim - "I don't remember who said it, but somebody said, "he wasn't the fastest, and he didn't hit the hardest, but nobody put it all together like he did." Or something like that. Might be a slight paraphrase."

    Don't take this the wrong way, or as a personal attack, but all we have is your claim with no supporting evidence. You're a bit unsure of exactly what "it" was via your own words.

    SRR was always considered a big puncher and a fast boxer. I've neither seen nor heard of your claims in my life. Robinson was hugely regarded in his own time. Joe Louis lived Ray's time and said he was the hardest hitting welter he'd ever seen, until Hearns. That's some praise.
     
  15. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Loyal Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    31,429
    Likes Received:
    42,287
    I didn't say that they said he wasn't a good puncher or a fast boxer, only that he wasn't the best at either, and that his greatness rested on synergy between the two.

    If you don't believe its a real quote, please ignore it. I am still going to mention them, because, as has happened in the past, someone else might know the quote.