Why is Mayweather not the greatest of all time?

Worlds apart as fighters.

Hearns is significantly more powerful, faster punching and imposing of height and size difference.

That Chico wasn't mentally optimal but no excuses, I've always said that performance and the Gatti performance are standout performances but then again, look at the relative level of the opponent on fight night.

Floyd doesn't sign to face Hearns at 147 lbs. I reckon he would win a title and move to another weight

 

All fair points but I think Floyd competes with them all. I think the best Floyd beats Duran and Hearns but Leonard likely beats him in a super close fight, and he'donly beat him once... For me he doesnt have the competitive superfights but he is THAT good, not a popular view I grant you, but there ya go, its all about opinions ain't it.

 

It is all about opinions but stylistically Castillo and Maidana both troubled Floyd and Prime Duran, fighting for his LW title brings exponentially more than them two in foot speed, punching arsenal, skills, feinting ability, timing and experience.

I can't see any version of Floyd beating the Duran that beat Palomino.

I genuinely don't see how Floyd beats Hearns - Tommy is a faster puncher, enjoys a bigger reach and has dynamite on the jab, the hook to body and head and the right hand. If Floyd gets aggressive with him, he has to take the same punishment that Ray took - if he boxes cautiously ala Benitez and I don't think Floyd puts himself into position to get stopped, but with his lowered WW output, trying to make Tommy miss and potshot counter to victory isn't gonna cut it.

The only thing that Floyd has on Leonard is defensive responsibility - offensively, Ray is his superior, quicker handed, harder punching, more proven when the chips are down.

I think Floyd is capable of beating them all IF they are compromised, but best LW version Vs best LW version and best WW versions Vs best WW versions or even Floyd Vs Hearns at 154 lbs, I don't see him taking the fights and if so, I don't see him winning them.

Nevertheless, Floyd still remains one of my favourite fighters and still my pick for greatest consistent defensive fighter with significant film footage.

 

A Hearns fight would have been an a horrific stylistic match up for Floyd.

Floyd wouldn’t have pressured him.

He wouldn’t have fought him aggressively.

Floyd was a defensive counterpuncher at the higher weights.

He’d have been cautious.

He couldn’t have out boxed Hearns.

Hearns was never outboxed in his career.

He was 6’1, with a laser jab from a huge 78” reach.

You needed to fight him hard and put him under immense pressure to beat him.

Floyd may rank higher.

But it simply comes down to styles.

Floyd was too small to have outboxed him, and didn’t have the power to have stopped him.

Also, let’s be real. Floyd would never ever have taken a fight with a prime Thomas Hearns.

 

I am not questioning weight divisions.

Yes, we have weight divisions for a reason. Do you know what the reason is? Do you know where weight divisions originated from?
Weight divisions don't exist so that little boxers can be "ranked above" heavyweights.
Weight limits started in bareknuckle days and came about from some little boxers who tried and failed to win against the very best boxers in open contests, so they (and their backers) challenged "any man at X stone or below", and 'claimed championship' at that weight. This became increasingly solidified during the transition to Queensberry rules boxing.

The reason weight divisions continue to exist is because fans enjoy watching boxing, they enjoy watching little men box.
If weight divisions didn't exist there would not be enough boxing to satisfy the fans. That's all it is.

 

You can believe he passed a whole bunch of USADA tests and then somehow slammed PEDs right after the weigh in.

 

I don’t really think Hearns was more of an outlier for height and power at 147 than Corrales was at 130. And Corrales was entering the ring at welter so he was also more of an outlier for size at 130 than Hearns was at 147 too.

 

It’s telling that your fantasy depends on the worst incarnation of Mayweather when he fought while injured.

It’s telling that you have to compare Mayweather, a guy who couldn’t even put on weight after a jr. middle weigh in, to a guy who fought at cruiser.

And Mayweather bears Leonard because Stone Cold said so.

 

We know this.

But what is your issue exactly?

Casual fans didn’t invent P4P.

It’s been around for decades.

There’s nothing wrong with ranking a non HW above a HW, with fair and objective criteria.

As mentioned earlier, most HW’s would beat lower weight guys by brute force. Strength. Not on skill.

So why can’t a great MW rank above a HW?

Who cares if the HW would win an actual H2H fight?

 

When will the penny drop?

You are talking about an organisation who don’t report findings straight away, and who allow their fighters to put Retroactive TUE clauses into their contracts.

They’re not fit for purpose.

 

Hearns was just a flat out better fighter.

He was also significantly bigger.

 

Duran beats both Castillo versions then.

Sosa, N'dou, Bruseles etc.

What's telling is you don't know how highly I rate Floyd - been around these parts for a very long time. I would never argue that Floyd beats Duran pre-Montreal. The Roberto that beat Palomino and Leonard was an animal - I didn't see anything of Floyd that convinces me that he could deal with that.

Leonard would find him like Mosley and Zab did but have infinitely more stamina and ability to follow up.

Hearns is another story - he's super aggressive and Floyd at WW is efficient and certainly not forcing the fight. Floyd isn't out boxing Tommy and isn't walking him down to take him to the trenches like Ray did.

The Floyd that stood with Augustus cannot fight that kind of fight versus Duran, Leonard or Hearns and he wouldn't - when did you see Hearns beat in any other manner between WW and MW?

 

Duran is infinitely more skilled than Frazier, Marciano or Tyson.

Robbi and Ray Leonard are infinitely more skilled than Ali and Holmes.

Pep is more skilled than Tunney.

I always used to think it was long accepted that the higher skill level lies with lighter fighters and an objective ranking of p4p demonstrates this with arguably only Ali and Louis troubling top 10 - 15, ARGUABLY.

 

Duran won the 135 tittle on a low blow and lost to Dejesus at at that weight. Dejesus was inferior to Mayweather. He also lost to boxers like Laing and Benitez, and quit against Leonard. I don’t back him at all against Mayweather.

Leonard didn’t have the same skillset as Mayweather. He looped punches, left himself open, and couldn’t counter like Floyd. He relied too much on activity and Floyd slows fighters down. I think there’s enough there Floyd to work with.

Hearns would depend on if Mayweather could take the jab away.

 

Corrales was a bigger 130 than Hearns was a 147.