Why is Ray Robinson NOT the number 1 p4p fighter?

Many believe Robinson to be #1 all time p4p it's kind of accepted as a fact by many. But why would he not be if he is not your number 1 all time?

 

A lot of reasons, for example his middleweight run was really bad, he doesn't have a positive record against any middleweight champion (besides lamotta) and he fought many, as for his welterweight run it was pretty good but it lacked that depth, his best wins are a washed up armstrong and decent kid gavilan who many thought should've gotten the decision, he also failed to capture a 3rd division

Besides the glazing, when you look at robinson's career he doesn't have anything significant that makes him a goat candidate, he doesn't have elite wins like SRL, doesn't have the longevity of duran, nor the numbers and resume of greb, walker, pacquiao and mayweather

His skills are overrated, he didn't adjust much after the first couple rounds which is why he needed rematches to get some of his best wins (mainly at middleweight)

He ducked the whole black murderers row, ducked ezzard charles too

When you compare his career to some fighters from the same era he really does lack almost everywhere at that elite all timer level

 

If resumé is your sole or main consideration then Greb, or possibly Langford, would have the stronger case. Not that Robinson’s resumé is weak - far from it, in fact. However, Greb’s is ridiculous.

 

Great points where would you rank him p4p all time?

 

If you take Robinson’s career up to the sixth fight with LaMotta in Feb 1951 when he was 128-1-2, he’d likely be considered unbeatable. That was when he was still prime.

Everything he achieved in his comeback years from 1955-59 is what established his overall legacy as the greatest of all time, even though he was not at his best anymore.

It’s not dissimilar to Duran in that way.

 

I don't really rank in numbers i rather do a tier list but he's probably not a top 15, i can name those, never really thought of going beyond 15 so i don't really know where he would be exactly

 

You're having a laugh mate. Kid Gavilan "decent" LOL. Most of his middleweight run was after coming back from a 3 year break, 137 fights deep! It's amazing he was winning middleweight titles at all.

Oh, Gavilan did not deserve the decision at all. Rubbish.

Failed to capture a third division, at a time when there were no junior divisions? By todays divisional standards he would have captured around 5 different titles.

 

John, de Nile is not just a river in-I don't know if that joke works when it's spelled out-let's just say you're in denial and Robinson was just not all that special. A lot of his career was found to have been made up by Bert Sugar. That has been proven by history at this point. And Willie Pep turns out to have not even existed at all in the first place, which was also turned up in the Sugar investigation. The DOJ's boxing HOF division has recently discovered 1 million additional Sugar documents about made-up fighters, including, but not limited to Boston Tom, Candy "He Snipes" Stripes and Lucien Rodriguez.

 

Well SSR and Bert both have "Sugar" in their name. It all makes sense now!

 

Sonuvabeach. I missed literally the most relevant part of this whole story for years. I feel like the cop at the end of The Usual Suspects.

 

So if Robinson put on 60 pounds an fought at heavyweight you think he would still be as effective or fight the same way as he did at 147? Just another way at looking at p4p which was created not to favour heavyweights

 

I'd be interested to see what your top 15 looks like.

 

Personally Its hard to overlook Greb based on resume. Greb also didn't duck while Ray did.

 

Robinson, Armstrong, Ali, Duran...I can't argue any of them for pfp, they all certainly earned that right imo.

 

I too rank SRR as p4p #1 all time.

The best argument not to, is criteria. If you have a single criteria, i.e. quality and depth of win resume only, then Greb should be your GOAT.