Wladimir Klitschko was no better than AJ, he just had a weaker era.

It’s because a very good hw contender might usually end their career with like 4 wins over contenders

 

How is old Klitschko having more experience relevant when he was having 20+ fights in his prime on top of already having fought about 40 times ? Against Ibrigamov he was already at 50 bouts. Additionally he didn't have the man who helped improve him to the elite level in his corner against joshua. That ancient Klitschko gets destroyed by prime Klitschko, he was slower in feet and hands, and had noticeably worse reaction times, nor did he have his best trainer telling him to be more aggressive like he usually did.

Lennox Lewis was at his physical peak AND mastered everything Steward had taught him in the late 90s, so it's not a good comparison. Joshua was far closer to his peak than Wlad regardless of his improvements, joshua vs Parker and Povetkin was in 2018, Ruiz in 2019, he didn't improve that much so we can already extrapolate who wins prime for prime. It's that simple. Klitschko dropped him and was outboxing him by most people's cards until joshua got that late stoppage. It was life and death, to the point joshua said he never wanted to be in that situation again. Povetkin fight was still razor close until Povetkin gassed and even rocked him. Prime Povetkin knocks him out.

 

Ah yes, 41

 

You can't compare the two. Wladimir Klitschko was a full-time professional boxer, with 69 total fights in his very active career. AJ is a part-timer who often fights just once a year, with only 33 fights, total, in his career. They're completely different, this is comparing apples to oranges.

 

It was also Lewis's last fight, so not really a fair comparison.

 

Dr Steelhammer has been consistently and enthusiastically overrated on this forum as a boxer. Much like AJ until recently. Wlad held his belts in a weak era. I've heard cases made with far less merit. Maybe this era is stronger than Wlad's. Better matchmaking at least.

 

Joe Louis and Larry Holmes held belts in weak eras as well. So what? They still Top 4 HWs with Louis having a case for the GOAT.

 

0 technical breakdown, just the most surface level observations.
lol

 

Whats so funny about this argument is AJs resume is built around guys from Wlads era.

AJ beat Joseph Parker and Wallin from this era. Dillian Whyte. He avenged his loss to Ruiz who had the highest BMI in HW championship history. Lets say you're right this era is superior what has AJ done in this era to get credit for that?

 

THANK YOU

Old Pulev, old Povetkin, old Klitschko, all in joshuas top 5 wins. He gets so much credit for this crap but then Wlads opposition gets called crap when he beat the YOUNGER versions of them and many more contenders.

People even give aj lots of credit for beating an old Takam, Takam was a fringe contender at best in his prime, more like a gatekeeper

 

My point is that although yes Klitschko would always have an experience advantage in a fantasy fight with prime Wlad against Prime Joshua, Joshua in their actual fight had NO experience against anybody even remotely approaching the level of a 41 year old Wlad, while Wlad had fought tons of world level and elite guys over his career in comparison. If we take Joshua from say the Povetkin fight or the 2 Usyk fights, he'd still have less fights against top guys but he'd atleast *have* fights against top guys and greater experience to lessen the gap.

With the Lewis comparison I'm just using an example to show that it's possible for a fighter to be in their athletic prime while still having not reached their overall prime.
Joshua didn't make sweeping improvements following Klitschko, but he just started fighting smarter and expanding his skillset. It's also important to mention that what really changed the course of the fight for Wlad was Joshua punching himself out in the 5th which allowed a still hurt Wlad to pounce on him and then later drop him. For the next few rounds he was tired and with his notoriously bad recovery, still hurt which allowed Wlad to take those rounds off of him.

But while both men were still fresh in the first 4-5 rounds, Joshua was getting the better of the contest. He took the occasional right hand, but largely was throwing more, and looked to be landing more of significance. But then he punched himself out and got dropped. That was the turning point and it probably doesn't happen if it's 2018 Joshua instead of 2017 Joshua.

Joshua improved on what almost cost him against Wlad, probably because as you mention he "never wanted to be in that situation again". He Paced himself better, improved on his stamina (still didn't have great stamina but he wasn't blowing heavy after every combination like he was against Wlad) and generally just fought more controlled. So if we replace 2017 Joshua with 2018 Joshua chances are he stops Wlad after dropping him around the 5th and since he's pacing himself better and is more controlled finishes him with little trouble.

Not a huge difference between pre and post Wlad AJ, but it doesn't take a huge difference to change the story of the fight.

So basically, AJ Vs Wlad was so competitive largely because of issues Joshua had that he improved upon later. The issues he had allowed Wlad his best moment and stretch of success in the fight. If we're using an older Joshua who has worked on said issues and has the experience of fighting Wlad and other top level guys, he probably stops old Wlad with little trouble. So using that fight as a stone hard proof that prime Wlad dominates a 2018-2019 Joshua doesn't hold.

You could still just say that Joshua's improvements wouldn't matter and that prime Wlad smokes him anyways, but using their fight as the main way to decide that is shaky at best. As for the Povetkin fight, it's not like Pov gassed just through being old. Joshua spent most of the fight landing heavy jabs to the body that were physically halting Povetkin and pushing him back. He preserved his energy while sapping Povs and then opened up and stopped him.

Could younger Pov have beaten Joshua? Sure, but it's also very much possible that he puts in a better effort but still ends up losing because Joshua is just bigger, stronger and better. He did well but not well enough to where you can certainly say he'd have won prime for prime. And again look at Wlad's performance against Povetkin. It's not like he destroyed him or something, the fight was a hideous clinch and lean fest largely because of Wlad. A truly horrid performance. Not to mention that Povetkin is just stylistically better suited for a guy like Joshua who actually looks to engage up close unlike Wlad who was a pure out n out boxer puncher that would just grab n lean against anyone who got into his bubble.

 

Nah. Wlad was able to rebuild after some devastating losses early on in his career and went on to have a long and dominant reign despite most of boxing community even his own brother writing him off. Wlad at 41 gave PRIME Joshua all he could handle and might have well won it had he taken a bit more risks. That loss actually enhanced Wlads legacy a bit and counters his reputation as a heartless quitter as he went to war with Joshua and showed some real heart fighting his way back into things after a rocky start.

 

Not quite mastered everything. He still got caught an koed by one punch with Steward in his corner just like he got caught an KOed by one punch before he hooked up with Steward.

 

Wlad was outboxing joshua at range, thats why aj went for it. Joshua in 2017 was still closer to his peak than Klitschko was, much closer. Thats the point. He kept changing trainers throughout his career because he didn't know why he kept losing/falling short of expectations. Lewis had the same trainer as Klitschko, he improved significantly like Klitschko. Joshua could never break through his limitations beyond conserving energy. He made a mistake trying to change his style because he didn't have that adaptability or that great IQ.

Joshua simply wasn't in prime Wladimirs league, so let's stop pretending he was. Wlad did a demolishion job on a better version of Pulev and his a far better resume.

The experience gap isn't as relevant as you think. Klitschko was well past it, not a champion anymore, about 2 years inactive going up against a 27 year old olympian who had been destroying all of his previous opponents. Joshua had already knocked out Whyte and was way more offensive back then. Joshua was literally the FAVORITE going into the fight. Joshua at his best would not outbox an old Wlad, he was never as disciplined as him, he dropped multiple rounds to a 40 year old Helanius and struggled to pin him down, so I'm extremely confident prime Klitschko was a level above him and would have punched his head off

This is wrong. Beyond pacing himself he made no improvements until post Ruiz 1, but the main consensus is Ruiz actually ruined him and he lost his confidence. An unconfident Joshua who more cautious would get outboxed and sparked out even easier by wembly Klitschko. The reason joshua knocked Wlad down was BECAUSE he threw the kitchen sink and went after Wlad, chasing him down but he still couldn't score the KO. Joshua gassed the same way against Usyk in the second fight after missing all those combinations and got peppered

He couldn't. No version of Joshua was ever good enough to outbox an old inactive beltless Wladimir. His jab did not improve at all. We see this against Parker and Pulev. Furthermore why are you ignoring that Wladimir did not have his best trainee and wa given poor advice by Vitali to not go for the KO in the subsequent rounds. All of this would've been a game changer.

 

Lewis was doing a movie before that fight. He obliterated Rahman 0 difficulty in the rematch, if the first fight were indicative of his peak the second fight wouldn't have been so easy.