Johnny Nelson sets record straigt on Naz & Ingle

Mate your talking like Brendan wasn’t getting paid from Naz and was on the breadline.Naz was paying him the one of, if not the most anyone paid a coach in the world at that point. So we could say Naz was very generous to Brendan (or was just not sharp on the business decision to renegotiate)

Remember he also has his other fighters he was getting his 25% off too, and the amateurs paying subs. Ingle didn’t want to take less than 25% and obviously felt he deserved 25% (approximately £10million of Naz estimated total earnings)
is £5mill not enough for coach? That’s still over market value and enough to be set for life. Bear in mind this is the 90’s too and Naz was making more money than Money mayweather.

nobody is saying don’t pay the coaches, but fury isn’t going to continue paying Peter or AJ continue paying Rob etc once they parted ways. This is dream land.
manny didn’t continue paying roach after they split either, it’s nothing specific to Ingle it’s just he made it public.

it’s a business deal, no coach in the world of boxing deserves or requires £17mill to keep his gym going or for his services (25% of aj’s recent payday) . Gyms don’t cost much to run so that’s a moot point. They don’t even get paid £1mill for a fight.

as far as the sport goes, Britain is doing better or similar than it was in the 90’s so your point is irrelevant. I think the issues are more in America.

I do understand the issue you are saying, but these are tied to other factors. The **** coaches like Ben Davidson (got introduced to us by fury), but the proper coaches were still there and still are there, just these other coaches like to have a fan base too and offer good deals so people go.
Coaching/teaching anything is not a business decision, it’s a vocation that can provide a roof over your head. It’s not a get rich scheme. If they want that, go buy bitcoin or something.

too many ppl trying to take fighters money instead of what is a fair market rate for their services.

 

Britain is doing better because theres literaly no one to fight. Mostly just a case of getting fighters in good positions to beat the weakest link of mostly weak divisions. The difference in depth is unbelievable between then and now. One of the biggest reasons being theres very few gyms like the ingles anymore. For that exact reason....the rewards end up elsewhere.

Even as a mentor. The guy that put all his time into you....teaching you all you know. Left family night after night to help you become the fighter you are....only be told you want a meeting and your getting ten percent now because the 25 percent was only good when there was no money to be made. Try coaching and training that kid now. What kind of authority do you have after that.

You mention Ben Davidson. Ben Davidson is pretty much a product of what your in favour of. If coaches we,re rewarded for their risk and hard work at 25 percent. Ben Davidson would be laughed out of gyms. The reality of it is Bens doing well and attracting good fighters because hes somehow went from a boxercise trainer into a trainer thats taken seriously mainly because theres very few good trainers about. Mainly because the ones that would have been great trainers at pro level know the drill. Bring through a fighter for them to get taken from you when money starts getting made.

Naz wasnt generous bearing in mind without Brendan there was no 75 percent. Again if naz is making more money than mayweather why is he even grudging the 25 percent. Mainly because of greed thats why. I get it. Its the norm. It doesnt make it right tho.

Its not a vocation if the boy puts pretty much his life and his families life into it. Nothing about boxing should be a vocation bearing in mind the dangers of the sport. Unfortunately most gyms run as a vocation nowadays because the people at the top keep taking all the money pretty much the same in most aspects of life. Again the norm but should we be supporting it....i m not so sure.

 

absolutely right , some are just not able to see the bigger picture

 

It’s not greed if he is paying Brendan more than anybody else is paying a coach. I don’t understand this logic. the most generous payer is greedy?
for example, (quick google) Luxembourg pays GP’s twice as much as UK does, so are Luxembourg greedy?

The dangers of boxing you keep mentioning are the fighters risk, not coaches, he’s not taking punches. And yes, it’s a vocation like everyone put their hardest into work if they are serious about anything. Unfortunately though, effort doesn’t mean you deserve paying.
Again it’s entitlement behaviour.

There are some class coaches out there, ingles being one of them, but it’s not because of money that we have less fighters. It’s a poor man’s sport that requires serious determination and grit, this hunger creates this. Nowadays you make more money on misfits.

do you seriously think coaches are worth 25% of a Tyson fury or AJ wage? Peter fury and Rob McCracken would be over the moon.

 

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Feel like sometimes your arguing against your own argument at times. Luxemburg is able to pay its gps double because their a high income economy. Which pretty much means their pot is bigger so they share it bigger. Naz should have been luxemberg in this story and the doctor was Brendan.

The deal was pretty clear. It was clear when Brendan was taking and preparing naz for his debut in mansfield. Then the nights down in London. Manchester. Sunderland. Dublin. Getting 25 per cent of absolute peanuts. Covering the expenses etc in the chance you might actually be lucky enough to be rewarded in a game where most boxers dont end up making much.

The dangers of boxing i keep mentioning is for the fighters. The system your encouraging.....puts anybody off going down a similar path that brendan did having a gym that was more than a vocational past time. Again bearing in mind the dangers of boxing for the boxers shouldnt the teachers be more than vocational coaches. Brendan proved his system worked by bringing through so many more fighters than any vocational gym. His gyms famed for building a community that served literally thousands of kids. Without that expertise. Without all the work. Without all expenses paid out over all the years. The travelling. The organising. The training. There is no 75 percent. On top of that 75 per cent i m pretty sure naz would have kept all sponsorship money etc. Which would have been massive on top of his 75 per cent.

Surely the entitled behaviour comes from the kid that was given the expertise. That had the time and all the help year after year to get to that 75 per cent. Who became a multimillionaire off the back of it but only wanted to pay 25 per cent when the money was peanuts.

So many class coaches out there that Ben davidson keeps getting decent fighters.

The 25 percent probably depends on the circumstances. For example joshua didnt really have any mentor bringing him through from 8 years old. Any one covering the expenses for years.....and getting 25 per cent of peanuts for years.

Regarding Tyson Fury i think it was pretty much a family affair between peter, his dad and the other brother. Again not really a vocation. Probably mostly funded by peters drug money from his past etc. A place boxing increasingly needs to go to because the 25 per cent is only applicable when its 25 per cent of peanuts.

 

My points are valid, you’re just refusing to accept them lol.
NAZ WAS LUXEMBOURG, he paid Ingle more than anybody else in the world paid a coach, therefore he cannot be greedy.
Even if he paid Ingle 20%, it would still be the highest paid anyone got. But you’re saying that’s too low?

Yes Ingle was clear on the deal, but unfortunately he didn’t get the 7year old kid to sign a never ending contract as it wouldn’t hold up in court. the deal obviously came to an end as Naz was clear on the deal he was offering. They couldn’t reach terms and moved on.

the more we’ve discussed it the more I think Naz did right.
I understand you may be trying to fix systemic issues with gyms, however Naz was definitely not the cause. Ingle was one of the highest paid coach in the world thanks to Naz. He is not the issue.

Coaches of kids don’t do it as investment for future, they do it for giving to the community and passing knowledge.

also, Naz had a right to be entitled, it’s his money, his business, he gets up off the canvas when knocked down….your starting to sound like a socialist lol.
What next, the employees of Amazon and the lorry drivers should own the company as there wouldn’t be a company without them?

 

No, you would negotiate a fee with a mercenary trainer obviously, not with the one who trained you from a kid for free. Totally different, the mercenary don’t give an F like that.

 

Looking at naz post ingle maybe he deserved it

 

What if the Lorry driver set the business up for Amazon. He taught them day in and day out for years the expertise needed to run the business spending all their time on it. Paying money out of their own pocket for years travelling all over the country to help them. The Lorry driver and his family. The Lorry driver was there every step of the way for 20 years....getting 25 percent of peanuts for his time cause that was the deal. But it was only the deal when their was peanuts to be made. When Amazon eventually started about to make money they wanted to renegotiate to 10 per cent. While they went on to make countless millions themselves due to the expertise taught to them...the expense and time the Lorry driver paid out for them etc

The message is dont mess about running gyms that arent anything but vocational pasttimes. Great preparation for a career that could end in brain damage.

One thing about ingles fighters is they didnt take that much damage compared to guys that came through vocational gyms because they taught them switch hitting etc. Good footwork etc. All things vocational coaches will struggle to teach kids doing properly 2 sessions a week etc in a vocational gym.

The ingles brought through more fighters than anyone. It was a system that was fair and worked but naz,s greed got the better of him.

In the end naz ended up with say 100 million instead of 80 million. The ingles we,re short changed on the deal and less gyms we,re ran anything but vocationally over the years for that reason. Kids coaching declined and guys like Ben davidson turned up able to carve a good career out of the lack of good trainers.

 

Would you though?
Who has actually done that in practice?

Naz was paying Ingle about the most anyone was paying a coach.
Hypothetically, if he said to Ingle
“because I’m earning so much now, and have more expenses like sanctioning fees, travel fees etc, can I pay you 20% instead of 25%, so that’s about $3mill dollars in 1997 (google), Kevin Kelly’s coach got about $50k when he fought me, so your still getting about 60x what he got for fighting me?? “

ingle says “no I want $3.5mill or it’s over”

both “ok then bye”


Public: Naz is greedy? lol


Bill gates/elon musk mentors or parents don’t tax them 25% for making them who they are

 

So you think a systemic issue in boxing gyms that have destroyed the sport is because Naz wanted to pay Ingle £6/7million instead of £10million?

Poor poor Ingle, teaching kids all his life after retiring from boxing and one kid only offered him £6/7mill instead of £10mill the greedy boy. How on earth was Ingle meant to survive without the full £10mill.

That £3-4million shortfall broke every gym round the country.
How is it all Naz fault?

Is Mike Tyson to blame too? He earned more than Naz and cus, Teddy and kev were all part of his growth more so than Ingle/Naz…but he doesnt pay them royalties and split from them too

Every other good trainer throughout history has survived just fine with how the system works, it seems to only be Ingle with the issue here. No wonder some say “only bothered about money”, although I’ve never really agreed but I can see where they coming from.

so what is your proposed change on the coaches structure? Should there be a threshold where the 25% is negotiable or is your coach/manager a complete shareholder in your earnings?
Is this % only for purses or sponsorships or what about just any earnings? For example, Tyson fury will get paid from Netflix, should he share 25% with Peter fury? As he wouldn’t have a Netflix show without the work Peter put in.

its interesting to me as I’ve been a boxing coach for years, now I moved and coach in another sport that isn’t my main sport in life, the coaches in what I do now just get a day rate, no % cut.
Money was not the reason I changed

 

This happens all the time and you don’t get ****. you can spend 20-30 years in a company, give it your all, grow it from nothing, but your still not a shareholder, you might get a few bonuses on top of your wage.

This is the real world. If you work hard, smart and put the extra effort in (like Ingle did), you tend to attract more customers and build. Naz was and still is his biggest FREE marketing tool for more customers, none of the other 1000’s of people who been through that gym was Naz.

 

The systematic problem with boxing gyms....isnt because naz wanted to pay less its because they all want to pay less. More and more coaches became vocational because anyone with any sense knows your just the lackey otherwise.

Boxing coaching regressed massively as a result. No fault of the vocational coaches who are heroes in my eyes. Just that no one has the time and effort to put everything into making proper boxers with the massive commitment needed...only to get bumped off when your use is done.

Your mentioning Ben Davidson. Guys like Ben Davidson is the result of that. In the current lanscape of trainers a guy that taught boxercise is now training or trained some of the best fighters in the country.

Its been a massive detriment to boxing overall. Not only did boxing knowledge die off. But boxing preparation for a professional career regressed massively....because no one wants to be that lackey.

Weather naseem was 7 years old or 70 years old it was a good deal. We,ll commit to you fully. Pay all the expenses. Spending hours upon hours teaching you. Travelling up and down the country with you for peanuts. Your part is you pay 25 per cent of your fight purse weather its for 100 pound or 100 million pound. If you dont get anywhere with it you lose nothing but if you do end up making 10 million in fight purses you pay us 2.5 million of that. Bearing in mind very few boxers make money boxing let alone 10 million.....its a fair deal bearing in mind the level of commitment the ingle family put in over the years. Again we,re not talking about a session or two a week. Naz was by all accounts trained as a professional from young. If you end up winning in the deal....your making millions and losing nothing if it comes to nothing.

The ingle gym has been credited as probably being the best gym over the years. Gave many boxers a career. Gave many youngsters a place to train and stay out of trouble. Massively helped the community. The benefits of that gym we,re massive. Yet because boxers dont want to do their part of a fair deal after the coaches lackey role is done.....that kind of gym doesnt make any sense. Now you have vocational coaches teaching kids how not to get brain damage in a rough sport with much inferior preparation for a career in professional boxing.

Mike tyson was the result of a gym that wasnt vocational. How good was he. He was so good no one in the division could stand with him at 21 years old...a relatively small heavyweight as well. His schooling was sublime. They had the time necessary to give him the proper preparation needed. A dying gym only because the fighter only wants to pay when the 25 per cent is peanuts even when their making obscene amounts of money themselves off the back of that schooling.

Now we have boxers turning up that havent been taught to avoid punches. That just outlast the opponents best to win the fight with the coach pool to pick from being guys like don charles....peter fury....joe gallagher or ben davidson. Its not a knock on them in any way....its just the only guys that have stuck around long enough in a sport where your the lackey.

 

Bearing in mind this is your comparison. In your comparison the worker gets his wages. Where we,re the ingles wages from naz when he was 7 until say 22?

 

Gym subs from all attendees.