Mike Tyson had a better career than Larry Holmes.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by NoNeck, Jun 21, 2021.


  1. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,408
    20,019
    Apr 3, 2012
    Tyson is the guy who changed the paradigm. Credit is due.
     
  2. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

    41,845
    11,151
    Mar 7, 2012
    The fights were there for King to make.
     
  3. Brian1980

    Brian1980 Member Full Member

    101
    203
    May 12, 2024
    Yes, wasn’t HBO doing a heavyweight tournament of sorts? Like pushing for a unified champion?
     
    Loudon likes this.
  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,408
    20,019
    Apr 3, 2012
    I suppose you think Churchill would’ve appeased Hitler if he were put in Chamberlain’s position, and rank them accordingly.
     
    Jakub79 likes this.
  5. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

    41,845
    11,151
    Mar 7, 2012
    Yes.

    The fights were there to be made.

    But it wasn’t like that in the early 80’s.
     
  6. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

    41,845
    11,151
    Mar 7, 2012
    A Rooney trained version of Mike would have destroyed Hitler and Churchill on the same night.

    I’m not sure about a post prison version though.
     
    Greg Price99 likes this.
  7. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    13,665
    12,316
    Mar 19, 2012
    Holmes gave Ernie Shavers a rematch after boxing his ears off the first bout. It almost cost him. Beat him twice though.
     
  8. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    13,665
    12,316
    Mar 19, 2012
    Holmes is comfortably a top 5 heavyweight alltime. He simply accomplished more than Tyson. I believe Tyson belongs in the top 10.

    Being a seek and destroy type of fighter i think Mike was a more sensational performer than Holmes. Larry was the one with his hand raised more often over a longer time frame against slightly better opposition.

    That is the reason threads like this get made. Emotion. The way Tyson fought when he was at his best was sensational. Larry Holmes jabbing Trevor Berbick's head off might not trigger that type of lasting memory.
     
    Loudon likes this.
  9. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,529
    9,566
    Feb 27, 2024
    So Wlad wasn't undsiputed either. You can't have one without the other.
     
  10. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,408
    20,019
    Apr 3, 2012
    You're undisputed if you're the only champion. Wlad was the only guy with belts in a four belt era at one point and was almost 20 defenses deep.

    Holmes wasn't undisputed. He was lineal for beating a guy who should've been in the neurology wing of the hospital.
     
  11. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,529
    9,566
    Feb 27, 2024
    Then Holmes was undisputed from July to October of 1979 as he was the only champion ;)
     
  12. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,408
    20,019
    Apr 3, 2012
    Then why did he need to fight Ali to become undisputed?
     
  13. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,529
    9,566
    Feb 27, 2024
    I'm following YOUR logic. And by the logic presented in your latest post, Holmes was undisputed from July to October of 1979.

    I'm following the consensus that Holmes could be called undisputed from the Ali fight.
     
  14. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,408
    20,019
    Apr 3, 2012
    Wlad established new lineage against Povetkin. Holmes, by beating a guy who recently had a belt mysteriously appear on his waist, did not.

    In any case, Holmes’ claim to being undisputed is flatly weaker than Tyson and Wlad’s claims, which not coincidentally corresponds to where his ranking should be in regard to theirs.
     
  15. MaccaveliMacc

    MaccaveliMacc Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,529
    9,566
    Feb 27, 2024
    Wlad had multiple points in his career when he could have established the lineage: Byrd fight, Ibragimov fight, Chagaev fight, Haye fight, Povetkin fight, Vitali's reitrement and Pulev fight.

    Holmes had 3 points in his career that he could have established or take over the lineage: when Weaver beat Tate for the WBA belt - The Ring crowned him the champ at that point, the Ali fight and the Cooney fight, since he was the highest ranked opponent he hadn't yet beaten.

    Both guys are proper lineal champions and both guys were seen as undisputed at some point of their careers. That's all we need to know.
     
    Brian1980 and Loudon like this.