Yeah, it's PBF Floyd that I have top 10 in terms of ability, not Money May. That's still a great fighter, but not the same animal from the Corrales, Gatti, N'dou and Hernandez performances. That Floyd was a complete fighter. Fast, hard hitting, defensively superb, stamina and legs for days, and still had a very, very high ring IQ. Floyd definitely lost more than he gained by changing his style after breaking his hands and moving up. And yeah, he definitely would have been greater had he faced Pac in 2010. Probably over SRL, I would say. Though probably not in terms of ability, unless he showed something that he never showed us before. I find it hard to imagine a universe where he fights better versions of the other guys he beat though. Oscar, Canelo and Marquez happened around the same time they could have potentially happened, I don't see him waiting to fight a more experienced Canelo in 2015 or somehow having access to Oscar and Marquez before he did. Oscar was too big at 154 and Marquez was too small at 126 back in the mid 2000s. He could have done things differently with other fighters though, but I don't think they would change his standing too much, certainly not on the level a prime Floyd vs prime Pac fight would.
Good point on the Oscar and JMM side. Hmmm, maybe there's fighters that he could've faced. Perhaps, had he unified at 140lbs and done the same at 147 as quickly as the fights could be made? Whilst, I feel that Gatti was his last great punching performance, well ... it was Gatti. The Corrales fight was the one that made me sit up and say he could be just as good, if not better than Roy. Having watched both Roy and Floyd at their best, it's interesting that Floyd wasn't rated near Roy and I genuinely feel like Roy at his best is a tier above the best of Floyd, not in skill but in combination of skill, speed and overall H2H threat. Gatti fight is akin to fighting Ruiz - great performances, beat champions on paper, but there were bigger threats that they could've gone after. Losses have a much bigger impact on perception than what they did 70/80 years ago. If Roy retired after beating Ruiz, coming back down and beating Tarver, I'm not convinced that a significant number would rank Floyd equal to or above Roy.
For me he's definitely in the top 15 p4p, and could even be in the top 10. He beat Canelo, Hatton, and Corrales when they were undefeated, Castillo when he was in his prime (only in a rematch in my opinion, the Mexican had won their first fight, and that, for me, is the only controversial decision in Floyd's career). Then he defeated Pacquiao (no longer in his prime, but still very competitive), Cotto and Marquez, also no longer in their prime but certainly competitive. Then other good and very good fighters like Genaro Hernandez, Judah, Gatti, Chavez, and others. We're talking about an undefeated boxer who has been consistently at the top for over 15 years, who has won in the most weight classes, whose clean punches he's taken can be counted on two hand, and who has only suffered one official knockdown (he put his glove down because he injured his hand landing a punch).
Yeah I rank Roy top 5 in terms of ability. If you told me he's actually the best fighter ever, I would have no objection. Most gifted athlete ever to grace the sport, it's insane. I'm not an expert on other sports, but if you told me that aside from his above average size (a relative weakness in other sports like basketball, football etc), he's the most gifted athlete of all time, I again would have no objection. Fastest hand speed maybe ever, one of the all time P4P punchers, and one of the most brilliant mad sweet scientists ever. See this back and forth he had with Ward around 5 minutes in, and tell me he wouldn't have made Ward his little ***** if they were to fight in their respective primes. Roy has him all figured out This content is protected Losses absolutely have a bigger impact today, it's the nature of the modern world. Back in the day guys fought 200 times and were bound to lose, and if they had several years where they were washed and were losing to fighters who couldn't normally carry their jockstraps, you wouldn't even hear about it unless you were the type of guy to read page 69 of a newspaper. No wikipedia or boxrec to check every fighter and their mama's records in a moment's notice. No highlight reel where they got KO'd or embarrassed. No shitty youtube video with fake edits of them crying and big letters saying "EXPOSED" or "FRAUD" on the thumbnail. None of that. Culture in general wasn't so pro "win at all costs or you'll be humiliated" as they are today. Floyd definitely used that to his advantage to get insecure people who don't win in life to live vicariously through him and affect his stance in pop culture and in the minds of casuals.
I agree with this, PBF was one of boxings best athletes in his youth, and already among the most skilled fighters ever. He had a tenacity about him back then and often decided he wanted to go home early. He showed a good inside game, naturally brilliant at setting traps and could throw smooth, fast combos, and do it off the counter. As he grow into 147 and ventured up to 154 (and began to generally just get older, with bad hands), he began to lower his output, slow down a little, engage back and forth with people and generally became a much more patient fighter than he used to be. He also got better at forcing others to be more patient. By the time he became Money May, he became one of the finest ring generals of all time, with some of the best ring IQ I've ever seen. As a complete side note tho coz it applies to both the older and younger Floyd's; is that his attitude towards fouls is exactly what every fighter should do imo. When Castillo and Hatton were rough, Floyd fouled them right back and he was sneaky at it. Even with Ortiz, but when Ortiz wanted to break the rules, Floyd did him dirty right back.
Listen to Roy commentate - people that say he had no fundamentals are simply repeating lazy narrative. I've often said that Roy may arguably be top of the tree H2H from 160 - 175 lbs in a one fight, take home all the chips fight. The worst thing other than dropping all that muscle weight to happen to Roy, was probably going to see G-Man after the Benn fight. It ruined his killer instinct IMO.
Them and Jones are the only ones I can see. But I think Floyd has a solid argument over all of them tbh
One of the things that makes Floyd competitive with all but Robbi and Hearns IMO is his ability to make between round adjustments. His composure between rounds is Sal Sanchez like and the way he can just come out and follow Roger's instructions to a tee is commendable. I deffo prefer PBF, one of my fave fighters with Ali, Robbi, RJJ, Toney, Louis and Pep, but I firmly place him at 130 - 140. Hand issues, power and relatively lowered activity, there's a few fighters that I think he could lose to, some that may even rank lower than him p4p.
I've got him Top 20. I'm thinking he might be Top 15. Besides who and when he fought some of his opponents I think the only issue is the amount of fights he had. Older fighters had a lot more fights so it's hard to look over that. If you asked me who's career would I have wanted that was a non-heavyweight I'd probably say PBF. Made more money than anyone else, was undefeated (officially) and was p4p one of the best for about 15 years while not taking too much damage.
From the 60's onward? Ali, Napoles, Monzon, Hagler, Duran, Hearns, Leonard, Benitez, Gomez, Sanchez, Whitaker, Holyfield, Pedroza, Arguello, Pryor, Jones Jr. Chavez Sr. Griffith, Ortiz, Camacho Sr., Zarate, Olivares . That's over 20 names without thinking hard of fighters that were just as skilled as Mayweather Jr. In their own way, from the 1960's thru today's era, and proved it against much better competition. All of them had losses, unlike May Jr. However when one faces better competition, losses will happen. One can reasonably argue Hoya, and Mosley, more than likely beat May Jr. If he faced them in their primes. I'd love prime Curry and Trinidad's chances against him also. A super busy and super fast fighter like Mel Taylor in his prime would be a stylistic nightmare for May Jr. Simply because May Jr wouldn't have the punching power to keep him honest. But that's also over 20 names "Money " May wouldn't have gotten with in a mile of a boxing ring against. One has to seek out and beat the best in order to be considered the best. May Jr, especially above lightweight was very selective about whom he stepped in the boxing ring against. There's a reason why he was always favored by the bookies in Vegas in damn near all his fights. And that fact should tell any reasonable boxing fan what was thought of his competition at the time he fought them. Smoke and mirrors...... That is the sum of May Jr.s career above lightweight. Talent wise though he matches favorably with any fighter in history. But so did many other boxers ......