If Wilder KO's Usyk, is he one of the greatest heavyweights of all time?

I will keep things simplified for you both in future, making comparisons of title reigns appears to be a concept too far for both of your minds.

 

That's the thing.
There were more than enough opportunities for Wilder to unify to actually prove himself:

Klitschko - didn't want the fight
Martin - this guy was also signed to PBC, btw
Parker - fought Joshua instead
Joshua - less said about that the better

Wilder was an Alabama backwater belt holder. He didn't want to test himself through unification

 

As dubblechin pointed out before, he had 5 of those in your rankings.
Ring is not a governing body, it’s probably the most respected independent though. My narrative is simple, he is WBC champ so he has to defend against the top 15 in WBC rankings. What do you not understand about that? This is regulation.

The only upper echelon guy he didn’t fight was AJ, but they couldn’t agree terms at the right time. Won’t be the first or last time that happens.

Which hw since Wlad do you think is good?

Learn to appreciate the official champs and the rules of the game. Learn to differentiate between the official bodies (opinions) and the unofficial opinions, it’s what other fans do in other sports.
If England won the Fifa World Cup in football, imagine ppl saying, but some magazine and some forum don’t think it’s good enough and they just chose to play rubbish teams, who did they beat? They not real World Cup winners. Who are fifa, my opinion matters more

 

Again, your eyes and your scorecards are irrelevant. The official judges matter.
My eyes saw a guy get ko’d and lucky to have jack reiss let him continue, but he is the official ref and my eyes or opinion do not matter, I respect his decision and don’t claim it was ko win.

 

Klit- klit signed to fight fury within 6months of wilder being champ. Small window to say anyone tried hard. it would have been his first defence and you (finkle) chose not to do it for his first defence, then he lost.

A few things on this though; as a manager and promoter it would generally be a crazy move to try to unify on your first defence.
1-you need to settle as champion and establish yourself and your team
2-you need to build your profile before risking it, as a champion, to have longevity of opportunity in your career
3-unification fights are your big money fights, you need to let them build a bit.
(These happens often and someone often loses)

4- AJ was the bigger money fight for Parker and Martin.

 

It’s not the comparisons, it’s the;
-disrespect of A longstanding WBC Heavyweight champion,
-disrespect of official boxing governing bodies of a sport we claim to be fans of,
-disrespect of what it is to have the Green Belt, and the dream to own one, the prestige and history
-disrespect of the code we in boxing strive to conquer
-Disrespect of what it is to be a champion, and therefore further disrespect of everyone who did not achieve what wilder did or whose success is judged on beating him.

Ultimately, disrespect of the sport.

 

Deontay Wilder defended his title against Tyson Fury twice. And fought him three times with the title on the line in total.

When Wilder defended successfully against Fury the first time (Wilder's eighth defense), Fury began the Year as the Ring World Champ, and finished it the RIng #1 contender.

When Wilder defended against Fury the second time (Wilder's 11th defense), Fury was still the Ring #1 contender.

Now, explain to me slowly ... using your Ottke example that Sven only fought low-level opposition... how Tyson Fury, the last Lineal Champ in the heavyweight division, and undefeated ... WAS ACTUALLY LOW-LEVEL OPPOSITION?

Because I've never seen an undefeated, two-time Lineal Champ described as LOW-LEVEL COMPETITION.

And if you thought Fury was low-level opposition for Wilder, then you rate Wilder higher than anyone in the history of this board.

How great do you have to believe Wilder was if you NEVER gave Wilder credit for defending against Tyson Fury twice and fighting him three times because Fury was such LOW LEVEL OPPOSITION for Deontay?

Amazing.

Also, as a side note, Ottke didn't just fight low-level opposition. I have no idea where you got that.

The more you type, the less I find you know about boxing. (Were you even alive then when Ottke was boxing? How the hell was Glen Johnson, Byron Mitchell, Charles Brewer, Robin Reid and those guys low-level opposition in your mind?)

Are you high right now? Do you have a drug problem?

And, to top it off, Ottke is on the International Boxing Hall of Fame Ballot for fighting all that low-level opposition (as you called them).

Are you mad that Ottke didn't fight Calzaghe? Is that what this horrible comparison is about?

Well, Wilder did fight his "Calzaghe." He fought him three times, and defended against him twice.

Sorry, Ottke didn't. Wilder did.

Your comparison, no matter how slow you want to deliver it ... is a terrible comparison.

It just is.

You are terrible at this.

Wilder had 13 heavyweight title fights. He only lost 2. He's already rated among the best ever in the history of boxing at heavyweight in terms of longevity of his reign (top 5) and successful title defenses (top 10). You can't take it away no matter how much you stomp your feet. It's already on the books. In every weight class, those things matter. You keep insisting he didn't fight ANY top fighters, but he did. You keep insisting he didn't defend against ANY top fighters. But he did ... against the TOP guy, in fact, according to Ring. Over and over again.

And if he KOs Usyk, he'll only add more to a great career.

You need to catch up.

Now, go away troll.

 

1, 2, 3 - It wasn't just any old unification though. It would have been for Undisputed against an aging Klitschko who underperformed against Bryant Jennings.
Stiverne wanted to go immediately into Undisputed.
Heck, Ruiz Jr. wanted to escape the contracted Joshua rematch to go straight into Undisputed. Literally every contender seemed desperate to be one half of Undisputed this whole last decade, everyone except Wilder (and Fury to an extent).

4 - Martin was with PBC, and as we know, PBC fighters have displayed next to no autonomy. Wilder was with PBC and was the WBC heavyweight champion, letting another guy collect belts to then A-side you in future negotiations was not a smart move. We don't know much about Al Haymon, but it is fair to say he is a smart man. So that again suggests they didn't want it for whatever reason. Did they want to grow a rival, I suppose, it is possible. But once Joshua picked up the second belt against Klitschko, they should have done everything they could to make Wilder v Parker.

The only time Wilder truly seemed keen on unification (undisputed for that matter) was when Ruiz Jr. was tied up in a rematch clause.

Too much talking about being the best, not enough action to try to prove it

 

I agree we can critique how it wasn’t the ideal plan for us fans but this is boxing, it took how long for Floyd and pac? How long for AJ fury? How long for froch Calzaghe?

It was 6months into his intended long reign (as every champ intends) between winning the wbc and Wlad signing to fight fury.
So in reality, just under 6months to negotiate and agree the biggest hw fight for undisputed, in his 1st title defence.

undisputed is generally the big money fight everyone wants, but you have 2options, take the big money now, or wait and let it grow….during which I’m also trying to increase my profile to get a bigger %. of it.
however for “short term thinkers” they want the big money now.
The guys you say weren’t in a rush, and some were. Notice it’s the big names who are not in a rush, as they are taking it slow in a long career (like investors). Guys like Ruiz are trying to get the big money now and spend because they don’t know how long it’s going to keep going.

Martin- good points

 

He could have ditched the wbc and fought the best. You can't hide behind the wbc to justify Wilder fighting poor opponents.

Plenty of guys left strong legacies in the sport without catering to the whims of sanctioning bodies

 

Furys reputation is largely based on fighting Wilder in the first place. So how is Wilder fighting him some great achievement when so much of his reputation is based on Wilder losing to him.

Without Wilder you could argue for Fury being outside the top 50

 

WBC do a fine job of disrespecting boxing all on their own

 

Sorry I don’t understand your point on several levels. Maybe you misunderstood the context of my comment, or I’m misunderstanding yours.
the guy was criticising that wilder didn’t defend against the “left hook” rankings, so I said, by regulation as wbc champ he must follow the wbc rankings. (As with every organisation).
so you state wilder should have left the belt as it has rules? Like every other belt does?

if you are stating the wbc top 15 was weaker than other bodies top 15, it wasnt. There’s just a **** top 15 hw’s. Only the top about 5 were good good. Which is why AJ and wilder have some common opponents (interestingly nobody criticises AJ for fighting the same guys)

So, why would you ditch the most prestigious and desired world title?
Because cojimar disagrees with their ranking system?

during his reign maybe you should have sent him a letter or told him you don’t agree with wbc, he should ditch it and fight for your governing body.

who are these “best” he should have fought? Only AJ I can think of. parker was awol after losing to AJ and went off the level a bit till a few years ago

 

Still the most prestigious and desired title out there

 

Probably

However the gap closes weekly