Usyk, Kabayel, Wardley and Itauma are overrated and Hrgovic is underrated - long analysis

This is one long copium over Dubois walking through Hrgovic.. excuse after excuse.. Hrgovic isn't underrated, he is rated where he should be.. he couldn't even stop bum ass Adeleye or a shot to pieces Joe Joyce & most people thought Zhang beat him too. Hrgovic just doesn't have it.. early on he was touted as Vitali mark II.. but the fact is he isn't. His career has been unremarkable despite him being nearly 34 & 9 years a pro. Dubois beat him up & your thread won't change it.

 

Yep.

It's always the if's, but's and maybe's with Hrgovic.

IF he had a 9-10 round gas tank, he could win decisions against some decent guys...
... But he doesn't - it's more like 6.

It looks like it's improving a little bit - and IF that carries on and then some, he could be competitive...
... But it's a big if, and age and time are against him a bit.


IF he had more power, he might be able to walk more durable guys down...
... But he doesn't, and it'd require a fairly significant increase to really make a big difference - plus there's now a risk of cuts.



Realistically, is he going to overcome his limitations enough to really compete at contender level?
Probably not - it'd take too dramatic an improvement to be likely to have the desired impact.

He wasted too much of his career hiding to maintain position, and he's just a bit too mediocre in a few too many ways.

Most guys don't become elite, and most pros don't get to be established contenders - and that's fine... Hrgovic looked promising, but the evidence is clear now that he's just lacking a little bit of X factor and isn't going to make it.

 

Rubbish "analysis".

 

This narrative regarding how well Chisora did is ridiculous
Won not a round after the 3rd

 

Wow so many things in this post are awful takes

I just don't have the time

 

Welcome back Mendoza (for those that know)

 

Sometimes its refreshing to see a thread where someone goes after the sacred cows on the forum. I appreciate the post but I don't agree with it

I think Usyk is fairly rated and beat well trained and motivated versions of Fury and Joshua. Sure Fury closed around a little in the first fight but he always does and that's not the reason he lost.

I did not think Chisora was as successful vs Usyk as you found him, I did not give him many rounds and while he did gas, I don't see him doing much better.

Itauma: maybe he is overrated by casual fans but I think most of the forum rates him property. Good for his age, good punch, and some promising skills. However, most see him as not having his defense, chin and stamina tested because it hasn't. I think KO'ing Whyte in one round is impressive but I don't take that as a signal that he is ready to be champ or would be favored over anyone in the top 5 in the division

Kabayel: I think he is worthy of his rank. I have had people disagree with me on this but I do somewhat agree with you about the Zhang knockdown. I don't think there is anything damning about a hard puncher like Zhang dropping a fighter but it was more circumstantial. Zhang was overweight and had been beaten up the body and tiring but still dropped Kabayel. I think some of this aggression may leave him vulnerable to a better conditioned fighter with good counter punching ability. I don't see Kabayel as overrated but maybe more vulnerable than his level of opposition has provided

I feel like Wardley is properly rated, a hard puncher who can be out boxed. A limited fighter who is tough and determined and can overcome a deficit and carry his power deep into a fight. I feel most would still have him as an underdog in a Parker rematch, Usyk fight, and Fury fight while Joshua and Dubois are toss up type of fights.

Hrgovic: I always felt he was a little overhyped on the way up and that his reputation exceeded the actual fighters he defeated. Not a bad fighter but people treated him like he was a future unified champ. His wounds are also self inflicted as far as not having the best gas tank. At the time Zhang was underrated due to the Jerry Forrrest fight and Hrgovic was criticized for winning a close fight and not looking good at times but I think in time his resolve and resilience to win that fight is impressive. I think if refined he can still win a title but I still see him as an underdog vs Usyk, Fury, Joshua, Dubois, Wardley, and Kabayel

 

I don't know what comparison you're trying to make between the two.

Hrgovic lost one fight in pro boxing because of unfortunate circumstances and bad refereeing.

Walin lost 3 quite decisively.

Hrgovic is known as a tough aggressive fighter with a good chin, Wallin is known as the opposite.

Before pros Hrgovic was Youth World Champion, WSB champion and Olympic medalist. What is Wallin's pedigree? I don't see anything comparable.

On the 4 main boxing organizations Hrgovic is currently ranked 2nd, 5th, 5th, 12th (how IBF managed to put guys like Sanchez, Guido Vianello and Torrez Jr ahead of Hrgovic is a mystery but whatever).

Where is Wallin?

Even if people disagree with me that Hrgovic is the best, which I understand, nobody can reasonably deny he is top 10, and according to 3 out of 4 organizations he is top 5.

So where's the comparison?

 

Out of the others I listed he's definitely the least overrated but I really dislike his low fighting frequency and lack of names in HW.

But yeah as I said I consider him and Hrgovic the top 2, if they fought I'd have Hrgovic as a slight favorite but would not be too surprised if Usyk managed to pull off the win and outbox Hrg with speed and technique. Overall though I think the chances are Hrgovic either takes it on points, or if he's losing rounds he goes in an all out war with Usyk and IMO Usyk would break first.

 

Is it? I don't dispute that Usyk overall deserved the win, he definitely got more rounds. But first 2 rounds are clean Chisora's, Usyk was running around the ring like a rabbit avoiding Chisora.

Chisora is shorter than Usyk, yet was 17 kg heavier. Clearly he can't keep up with Usyk's tempo in that form.

 

Honestly I did not watch their amateur fights as much as Hrgovic's. I listed his win over Parker because that's actually available on YT to watch and Hrgovic clearly won. The one vs Joyce and Yoka are also available on YT and also Hrgovic (should have) won.

But in amateurs and olympics there's a lot more robberies and it's generally not at the level of professional boxing, so I only shortly mentioned that then switched to pro fights.

Somebody like Yoka was successful in amateurs with fewer rounds, headgear protection, and biased judges, then when tested in professionals by Bakole he got pounded.

 

Zhang was younger, and probably more importantly, less fat and with better cardio against Hrgovic. He was throwing punches in round 9, only 10-12 he was exhausted and barely threw. Against Kabayel he barely got off the chair at the start of round 2 even though he won round 1 and took no damage lol. Bro is just fat and lazy and made a career from surviving Hrgovic for 12 rounds and putting up a decent fight, and because he is from a country with literally hundreds of times more people than Hrgovic, he got more from his loss against Hrgovic career wise than Hrgovic got from a win.

And sorry but as I said in the OP, nobody informed debates if Hrgovic won against Zhang or not. Even if count the round 1 pulldown as a knockdown, as the judge mistakenly did, that's 2 points, and Zhang won rounds 3, 6 and 9. That's not enough even for a draw, much less a win. Just look at the punch stats. Or better yet look at the fight. It's just not debatable. Hrgovic won most rounds.

I will say though that Hrgovic vs Zhang is likely his 2nd worst edition, after Dubois. He said it himself that his father had died so he wasn't mentally there in the fight and also it was under Ronnie Shields so he was overtrained.

Saying that Hrgovic was gifted an easy route to the title could not be more wrong, literally the opposite is true, he didn't get to fight Usyk when he should have and instead Dubois got the opportunity, the Zhang win alone was worthy of a title, look at who Dubois took his first title on lol, and Hrgovic had to fight the best version of Dubois yet that also headbutted him, while he himself came from a sickness and an unfinished camp so wasn't at 100%, and he was still winning on points until the referee stopped the match in Dubois' favor despite all the headbutts.

But I'm just repeating what I wrote in the OP, you say such absurdly wrong things I doubt we'll ever agree.

 

Chisora was playing dirty, he constantly put Usyk on a headlock and ref allowed it.

 

What do you base the stamina criticism on?

He won Zhang on 12 rounds decision.

He was winning McKean on points until he KO'd him in 12th round.

Even with all the circumstances I mentioned in OP he was STILL winning Dubois on points at time of the stoppage and if the judge ruled correctly it would be either a Hrgovic win or NC. Healthy Hrgovic, fair judge and he'd have taken the title from Dubois, so to say he can't make a mark on title discussion is patently false when he WAS in a title fight and was winning against Dubois in his best edition yet while Hrgovic was at his worst.

More recently and more relevant, with new trainer, he took the Joyce fight on short notice and still beat Joyce convincingly on points, according to statistics took all 10 rounds, though I'd maybe give Joyce 8th.

From Adeleye he took literally all 10 rounds and it wasn't even close.

As for his power, he has 14 out of 19 KO's. Usyk has 1 out of 4 in HW. And I'd say the fighters Hrgovic didn't KO overall have better chins.

 

Prime isn't only about years, I think most people would agree that when Lennox and Tyson fought Lennox was closer to his prime than Tyson to his, even though Lennox is actually a year or so older.

Joshua lost his balls against Ruiz when he got KO'd. Chisora said it himself, when fighting Usyk you have to be prepared to go to the other side. Joshua wasn't. If Joshua had the balls to throw hands he'd have at least a chance to KO Usyk, even if he would risk getting KO'd himself with a counter punch. Instead he played Usyk's game of points and lost the same way twice.

Usyk lives a healthy sportsman lifestyle and is very disciplined with diet and training and I would be genuinely surprised if he abused alcohol and drugs. Also because of his excellent defensive style he took very little punishment in his career, and the punishment he took was from smaller men as most of his career he fought below heavyweight. And the big pauses he takes between fights also help, somebody who fights 3 times a year won't be equally spent at 35 as somebody who fights once a year.

Fury is known to have gotten severely obese and lost weight, several times, such weight fluctuations are extremely unhealthy for the body. He's known to use cocaine, eat junk food, generally just abuse his body, and the damage he took was from heavyweights.

And even the physical conditioning aside, Usyk had the mentality to win, Fury had the „pride before fall“ arrogant clown mentality.

Like I said, just look at Fury vs Klitschko, then Fury vs Usyk. It's incomparable.