Benny is more of a purist - defensively responsible, great ring general, economic movement but can utilise his feet when needed, good repertoire of punches at all ranges. SRR could do it all, but chose to neglect some aspects of defensive responsibility to emphasise his offensive brilliance. There is footage that highlights that Robbi had elite headmovement, foot feints, head feints, check hooks, parries and shoulder rolls, but this wasn't his usual M.O. as he recognised early to get the big fights and draw the crowds, you have to be exciting, not another Charley Burley (with all due respect). Robbi is more fluid, more offensively creative with his combinations and also has great timing, but has genuine one punch KO power with both hands, which to be fair, Benny can deffo hit, just not like Robbi IMO. The skill level both display is so high and implemented beautifully for their styles that I feel that if I were to definitively opine whom was more skilled, I'd likely be focusing more on my stylistic preference than genuine skill for skill assessment, relative to their style and athletic ability.
Depends on what you mean by 'skilled'. I really like @META5 post on this, with the only exception being that I wouldn't consider Robinson to have elite head movement. I would consider someone like Duran or Locche to be a case of this. Gavilan is also a good case of elite head movement for a similar style to Robis. Sugar simply took too many shots to qualify for this in my opinion, and you rarely saw him in a crouch or bobbing and weaving. He relied much more on distance management and being longer in general, but I personally think Leonard was better than him at this as well. One thing I will say is that Leonard can be argued to have the better jab even based off the limited footage imo. Being able to land your jab consistently on a high level southpaw shows skill in all manner of areas - very high levels of body positioning and mindfulness, top class footwork to quickly change from being inside and outside the opposite stance. When it comes to punch mechanics then it's Sugar Ray all day. Possibly the best ever at generating power and leverage in his shots, orthodox and unorthodox. Just look at the film. Brawling is again Robinson all day. Just look at the film. No need to expound on that! Ring generalship id personally go with Leonard. Being so consistently dominant against other legit top class ring generals and skills merchants is incredible imo. Leonard was also unlikely to get drawn into the opponents fight whereas Robsinon looked to me like he could be drawn into excessive exchanging when it didn't benefit him.
Genuinely how does he do this? The man could throw legit grueling and devastating shots whilst having his whole body curved and seemingly out of balance, ****ing amazing I know some guys in my gym who still struggle to generate some power even when being in perfect balance and feet planted
Hi Buddy. Thanks for an excellent and on point breakdown of these two greats, and a good measure for those who are not decided. thanks. stay safe META5, chat soon . Mike.
Tbf, I think I said he could be seen on film to show elite headmovement but not his usual M.O. I'm a firm believer that at that level of greatness it is more likely that he could do the skill than he couldn't. Routinely not doing so is more stylistic preference i.e. being an exciting fighter who likes to war than not being able to do it whatsoever. The footage against Docusen shows some very good headmovement and footwork. I've heard it said by all accounts, earlier versions of Ray at LW and WW demonstrated better headmovement and reflex than the version that we usually see on film with great chin, prepared to take a punch or two. However, not a hill I would die on so yeah, I would venture that some of those observations are in part due to Robbi's conscious decisions about how he would fight in the ring to draw a crowd and make as much money/get the big fights as possible.
No one in the black an white 1920s footages looks very skilled. Maybe it’s the quality of the film or just how they fought back then but I just can’t see it
Does Charlie Chaplin look like he can walk the same way you and I do in his films? Gloves were different, refs more lenient, more infighting - the skills were there, just much harder to see ... The likes of Driscoll, Fitz, Langford, Johnson, Dempsey, Gans, Benny Leonard, Ross, Armstrong, Tunney etc. had they been filmed in ultra HD from multiple angles, I'm sure that we would appreciate them a whole lot more than we do based on the limited footage/quality of footage that we do have.
That’s what I’m saying. just can’t see them looking that skilled from just looking at the b/w 20s footages
Okay, I hear you. There are, however, fights of the era and even earlier in decent form. Some fights have been lovingly upscaled to much better than original quality. Even then, the footage still doesn't compare - I know that when I watch Thierry Henry with my boys, both my sons moan about the quality of some of the footage so imagine 100 years ago. The thing is though, I suppose you have to take a leap of faith and start to watch certain footage in slower motion to try to make out what you're seeing with sufficient detail to recognise and then assess the skill that you can subtract from the film. Sometimes, bias might make you see more than is actually there or sometimes it might make you see less than is actually there - it's always a strange one. Btw, I refuse to rank fighters that I haven't studied on tape which is why Greb is so conflicting for me. No footage but then résumé is résumé.
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