Oleksandr Usyk is the only Eastern European fighter to ever beat boxing.

Wlad only got to be champ because their momma told Vitali to quit beating up his little brother and put him on time out.

 

The Russians in Khabarovsk differ in countenance and features from ... St Petersburg Russians. The east can be seen in Eastern/Siberian Russians. If I was lil' Rocket Man, I'd be courting Bivol like I did that bizzaro basketball great, whatshisname? Looked it up; Dennis Rodman. I think Dennis got up in the Rocket Bum. Just sayin'...

 

Are you saying Fury, AJ and Dubois are ATG material? Chisora? I think Usyk is a phenom and the eye test suggests he might be a H2H nightmare but his HW resume is light, and I'm a fan.

 

Sanders was retired and irrelevant by 2006 when Wlad's reign started.
Briggs wasn't even ranked when he fought Vitali so no loss in not fighting him,
I would probably rate Byrd, Povetkin, and Haye above anyone Vitali beat. Even Pulev is arguable

Usyk's reign presumably could have included Sanchez, Zhang, Parker etc but instead Kabayel and Parker took care of them. And Usyk has yet to beat either of them.

 

This is a good debate.

But I’m struggling here with your points.

Every fighter has different attributes.

Different strengths.

Usyk was in his prime at CW.

He’s a southpaw technician with great skills.

But he doesn’t possess huge power. Only respectable power.

So he normally beats guys on his speed and skills. On his mobility.

So he can’t beat guys in the way that even the limited Dubois can. Because he just hasn’t got that size and power.

So yes, he’s a point fighter.

But what on earth is wrong with that?

He can’t knock people out like Wlad could.

So?

Both Wlad and Usyk are/were great.

The difference is:

Usyk has never lost or been knocked out, but at the same time, Wlad had almost 70 fights at the weight, whereas Usyk has only had about 7.

So it’s an interesting debate.

But not one where you can do a direct comparison.

For what it’s worth, my opinion is:

Usky’s a genius. Although if he’d have turned pro much earlier, and he’d have fought in the division much earlier, where he’d have had many more fights, then it wouldn’t have been a shock to me, had he have faded quicker and maybe picked up the odd loss.

Again, it’s a good debate.

But you can’t penalise Usyk for winning on points, whilst giving Wlad a pass for being knocked out.

It doesn’t make sense.

Although, again, you cannot do a direct comparison between a guy who had almost 70 fights at the weight, to a guy who’s not even had 10.

 

The SMW division is a division where most of its best fighters only stayed there for a brief period.

Joe was the only guy who stayed there for a period of 14 years.

And through a lack of ambition.

Did you follow his whole career?

He held a low level belt for a decade.

He made 21 defences of a low level belt which nobody respected, where more than half of those title defences were against non world level opponents.

He spent 75% of his career fighting non world level opposition.

The last time I checked, only around 10/11 of his 45 opponents, were world level guys, where more than 90% of those were B level guys.

He killed himself to make weight, to fight in a division, which was mostly weak.

He wouldn’t go to America to raise his profile.

He wouldn’t move up to LHW to try and pursue better opposition.

He stagnated for years, fighting mostly unknown Euro level guys, put forward by Warren and the WBO.


He did not complete boxing.

He can’t even be compared to Usyk.

Usyk did more in about half the fights.


I guess I’m struggling here with your interpretation of beating the game.


If your definition is:

Making money, and retiring undefeated with your health intact, then okay, I 100% agree.


But I thought that your definition was:

That they did all that they could, where they couldn’t do anymore, before getting out at the right time with money and a zero.


So you’ll have to clarify.


If Usyk retired now, then yes, you could say that.

Even though Floyd pulled a lot of BS in his career, you could also say that he beat the game.

But Joe?

Joe wasn’t as great as those two, and he really has a very poor resume for such a perceived ATG.

 

I’m pretty sure I’ve read that Bivol’s mother is Korean.

 

I don't think there's any other boxer period who's done it do flawlessly.

 

Why are you being so rude?

You have zero knowledge of me.

I’ve studied the sport for decades now.

Now I asked you a simple question, as your posts could be interpreted in different ways.

Again, if it’s retiring undefeated and being healthy, then I 100% agree with you.

However, your examples aren’t comparable.

What Floyd and Usyk did, is not what Joe did.

You cannot say that a guy who was hid away with a low level belt for years, completed the sport.

That is a joke, unless you’re specifically talking about earning money and retiring healthy with a zero.

But if that’s the case, then Ottke completed the game.

Joe had a very carefully managed career.

He did not fight the level of opposition and take the risks that the others did.

So just tell me specifically what you mean.

It shouldn’t be an unreasonable request.

The whole point here is to debate.

 

Not that hard to achieve.

With 5 opponents on the counter damian knyba also never lost , the same is true for virtually every known guy in the hw division .

 

You only quoted half of the paragraph.

If you look at the whole paragraph, you’ll see that I acknowledged this, and the great difference between the 2 fighters.

 

Wladimir was a greater HW imo, but I think Usyk is the greatest p4p Eastern European ever.

 

No, they are not and you’re right, Usyk’s resume is light and with too many rematches against guys he already beat.

I still think it’s hard to argue that a boxer with KO losses to opponents another have wins against is above. Even though Wlad was a great fighter (I’m not a fan) his record is not filled with exciting fights against ATG’s either.