I’m not saying Ali can’t deal with size or a jab individually. He obviously handled both in different fights, the issue is the combination of all those things together. Liston and Terrell had jabs, but neither consistently fought behind an elite distance-control system built around keeping opponents at range and leaning on them when they got close. Wlad’s game wasn’t just a jab, it was a full structure based on reach, framing, and physical control which is a completely different problem than simply slipping a lead hand. And the Fury comparison actually shows why size matters. Fury could disrupt Wlad because he was taller then him, had a longer reach while also being fast and having good movement. Ali wouldn’t have those same advantages because he’s the smaller man giving up height, reach and weight. So it’s not “Ali never faced X therefore he loses.” It’s whether we’ve seen tools from him that would be able to consistently neutralize Wlad’s style. Speed alone hasn’t historically done it, getting inside is easier said then done when he can punish you if you try and then lean on you if you get too close. That’s why it’s a difficult stylistic matchup not because Ali isn’t great, but because he hasn't shown the tools needed to overcome the style and physical advantages that Wlad has.
How can his effort against Joshua be considered great when Joshua lost to Ruiz and Dubois neither of whom are considered great. I think you are overselling the Joshua performance. If are going to make excuses for Joshua against Ruiz and Dubois you can do the same for him against Wlad. Maybe he was overconfident or inexperienced? Poor tactics? How can Ali not be considered the man against Spinks when he was still in undisputed champ.
AJ hadn’t lost to Ruiz or Dubois then. The Dubois loss was years after. But it’s irrelevant anyway. Fighters lose. It’s not an issue. The point is this: Before and after Fury, Wlad showed that he could be sharp, powerful and aggressive. Against Fury, he couldn’t be. So he wasn’t shot for Fury. It was simply that Fury stopped him from being able to be offensive and aggressive. Why? Because of his style and attributes. Which means that Ali could absolutely have replicated many of those. Nobody said that Wlad was shot beforehand. He proved against Pulev that he wasn’t. He then proved against AJ that he was still a credible fighter. Therefore, it’s not the same as using Ali’s end of career fights, where he was visibly a completely different fighter. The Tyson Fury fight, where Tyson did a psyche job on him before the fight, and where he had him non-committal on his jab and power punches, where he was sold feint after feint, is very, very relevant to this discussion. Again, the reason why Master won’t analyse it, is because it destroys his argument put forward. Now if Wlad was noticeably shot, either before or after, then that would be clear that the Tyson Fury wouldn’t be an objective fight to look at. But the fact that Wlad was in form both before and after, shows that his performance was specifically down to Tyson’s style. He wasn’t shot. He wasn’t no longer a great fighter. Tyson Fury specifically was the issue. Now considering that Ali had many of the attributes that Tyson possessed, the fight is very relevant for discussion. Regarding Ali, if you’d followed his career, you’d know that even his most ardent fans were praying for his retirement post Manilla. So there’s simply no comparison between the end of career versions of those 2 fighters.
Wlad is huge even by heavyweight standards. Tall, long, and disciplined with his jab. Ali struggled more with big, upright jabbers than with shorter pressure fighters.
No. He had an easy time with Terrell and Bugner, who best fit that description. Foreman fits it pretty decently also. Jones, Cooper, Frazier and even Norton don't.
Wlad was just worried he'd be countered. Which makes total sense considering the guy is 6'9 and 270 lbs. Wlad was wooping Tyson in the 12th when he started letting his hands go. Wlad wanted the rematch and I personally think he would have let his hands go and beat Tyson.
You're wrong. Wlad's distance control is elite. How could it not be? It is core to who he is. He reigned on the HW division longer than anyone in 140 years!
Tyson was inexperienced, he’d barely beaten anybody and he had no serious firepower. Yes, he let his hands go in only the final round. So why couldn’t he let them go in the previous 11 rounds?? Why did he let his hands go against AJ, who was also a SHW, but with huge power??
Fury wasn't inexperienced. He had 24 professional fights and had was the 3rd ranked contender. Additionally, he had sparred with Wlad and also had an amateur career. I already answered you. I think Wlad was worried about getting countered that's why he didn't throw many punches until the 12th. The real question is if Wlad figured Fury out by the 12th or did Wlad just know he was down on the scorecards and needed to go all out. Regardless, it doesn't matter because Fury declined the rematch so we will never know.
BS. Tyson had done nothing noteworthy. It’s not about how many fights he’d had. It’s about who he’d fought. He should have lost to McDermott earlier in his career. He’d been dropped by Cunningham and another guy. He’d done nothing apart from beating Chisora. You’ve answered me? What, he couldn’t throw punches for ELEVEN rounds, against a guy who’d beaten nobody, and who had no power?? So what does that tell you?? He couldn’t let his hands go against Tyson, but he could against the much more powerful AJ, which was after his fight with Tyson??
Fury's reach was longer than AJ's. Stop with the Fury has no power stuff. He's a professional fighter that is 270 lbs.