Would James Toney have struggled with Joe Calzaghe?

Toney knocked Nunn out in the 11th, but only after being thoroughly outboxed and outclassed for the entire fight.

So the Nunn fight still comes under this part of my earlier post: “Toney had serious issues with busy, awkward, fast-handed fighters.”

 

Calzaghe via pretty wide UD ((2x) 116-112, 117-113). Toney would have underestimated Calzaghe as a "British Bum" (like he did Eubank & Benn a few years prior). That would have been his undoing. So realistically Toney comes in unmotivated (like he did Thadzi) & gets outworked, outboxed, outfought & humiliated by the fast, speedy, multi-punching, slap master Calzaghe. I can even see a flash KD being scored (like he did to Eubank Sr). This would be Toney's 2nd most decisive loss behind Jones.

 

Tbh, Toney would have NEVER made it to 168 in 97. He had been fighting at LHW & even CW at this point. It would have to atleast be at 175 or a catch-weight in-between, otherwise this fight doesn't happen.

 

He didn't outbox him the whole fight, but he won most of the early rounds & was on his way to winning before the stoppage. It was a competitive fight from the start, with Nunn a few steps ahead before Toney started to catch up to him.

 

98-92 (8 rounds to 2) 97-93 (7 rounds to 3) 99-91 (9 rounds to 1).

The official scorecards suggest otherwise. And the consensus was, from any report you read from the fight, Nunn was outboxing and outclassing him for pretty much the entire fight.

Don’t try to make it something it wasn’t.

 

I'm not. Anyone with unbiased eyes could see it was a competitive fight. Also, it was in Nunn's hometown of Davenport Iowa, so of course he's going to get hometown favouritism (so the ringside scorecards aren't reliable source to the action of the fight). If it was in a neutral state or in Toney's hometown, I'm sure the scorecards would look different.

 

Yes. Calzaghe would have been a bad style matchup for James. I think he was too busy and just threw too many punches, plus he had a great chin and was always in shape. James was too lazy. I still think the fight goes to a decision, James loses a decision, then complains after that "all Calzaghe did was throw b**ch punches that I blocked".

 

An awful lot to look at here.

Prime for prime, James would had to have been favoured.

Under your set criteria, Joe would have had a great chance, if he’d have been confident.


In 1997, Joe would have been a nobody, to a version of James who was in a slump.

My guess is, he’d have had no respect for him, and he’d have had little motivation.


It’s even doubtful that he could have made the weight at that point.

He was struggling to make weight for Griffin, a few years earlier.


The WBO belt meant little then.

Joe was a nobody in the US.


Before he’d fought Eubank, he was only a prospect who’d never fought a world level fighter before.

So I’d have to agree with the others here.


An unmotivated version of James, against an unknown guy, would have pointed to a decision win for Joe.

Prime for prime, a different debate altogether.

 

Joe can't outbox James so he would have to try to outhusle him. While Joe is busy that would actually open a lot of counter opportunities for Toney.

 

I remember once Calzaghe trolled Toney, by telling him that he had his old belt, but that it wouldn't fit around his waist now.

 

Yes he can, Nunn was doing it until he got caught. Toney is too flatfooted for Joe

 

Don’t compare Nunn to Joe.

Nunn had exceptional skills and movement, from a huge reach.


Joe wasn’t technically gifted.

He wasn’t a technician.

He was awkward, due to his speed, volume and fitness.


He didn’t out box many guys on exceptional technique, like a Nunn, a Pea or Loma.

He outworked them.


Joe had a better overall career than Nunn, but Nunn was far more talented.

Joe had a poor defence and was very hittable.

Much more hittable than Nunn.


James would have had a Birthday with right hand counters.

Joe would never have outboxed James Toney.

His only hope of winning, would have been outworking an out of shape, unmotivated version of him.

In 1997, he absolutely could have pulled it off.

He would have been an absolutely nobody to James, who wouldn’t have seen Joe as a big fight, or a credible fighter.

He was simply a British prospect.


So, yes. He could have had a rude awakening.

But prime vs prime?

A completely different debate altogether.


Joe never did anything in his career to have been favoured over a prime James Toney.

I doubt very much, that he’d even have fought a prime James Toney.


BTW, we have to stop this myth that Nunn just got caught.

That is not what happened.

 

100%

 

Michael Nunn is not as good as Calzaghe why are you always downplaying his ability ? He could use the ring if he needed to and used the same southpaw angles Nunn liked to spam. His workrate on top of his speed is going to be a huge problem for Toney